The first major point is academia has utterly let the world down.

“The first major point is academia has utterly let the world down” says the glowing report at

They continue:

  • “Now that LENR obviously functions there are almost no experimental experts available or organized training underway.
  • The world economy is completely out of the loop, so far.
  • The second is governments worldwide have set up a patent barrier, which is still in place that keeps the potential dowsed down.
  • Only the very brave and eccentric have ventured out with Andrea Rossi leading the way.”

(bullets mine.)

Add this to  Steve Krivit presenting on LENR for45 minutes at the American Society of Nuclear Physics:

(Thanks for this.)

Maybe the end of  2012 will be seen as the end of the “pathological science” title for LENR.

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313 Responses to “The first major point is academia has utterly let the world down.”

  1. Roger Bird Says:

    I got the impression watching Krivit that he very much wanted to be credible to the hard case skeptical science community, those not wanting to invest time or reputation points on something outside of the box that may not be true. So, if that is true, he is serving a purpose.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      You may want to start a new thread on this one.

      Out of sight!!

      Global Energy Corporation GEC

      The GeNie LENR reactor may be the hottest thing to hit the scene in the race to commercialize LENR.

      The good news is it transmutes spent nuclear fuel rods on sight providing high pressure steam to drive the turbines, eliminating the need to refuel the main reactors.

      One of the officers on GEC is Frank Carlucci. He was head of the DOD in 1989 and went on to manage the Carlyle Group.


      GeNiE Reactor technology is based on 20 years of experimental research by Global Energy Corporation, JWK International, and SPAWAR Systems Center San Diego scientists and engineers.


      What’s Claimed Is

      1. A hybrid nuclear fusion fast fission reactor in a vessel comprising:

      an electrolyte solution comprised of PdCb a conductive salt and D2O;

      an anode of a conductive noble metal provided within said electrolyte solution;

      a cathode comprising a conductive high Z (atomic number greater than 46) material wound around a metallic actinide nuclear fuel element;

      a power source providing constant current to the + anode and the -cathode;

      an applied power profile for fabricating the PdD nano-alloy; and

      an electrolytically co-deposited PdD nano-alloy on to the high Z cathode winding and on said fuel element.

      2. A hybrid nuclear fusion fast fission reactor as claimed in claim 1 wherein said cathode wound around said fuel element acts as a neutron generator and said cathode is comprised of a composition of the non-deuteriding series selected from the group consisting of platinum, gold, mercury, lead and bismuth.

      3. A hybrid nuclear fusion fast fission reactor as claimed in claim 1 wherein the nuclear fuel element is electrolytically deuterided beyond the actinide-deuterium beta phase.

      4. A deuterided nuclear fuel element adapted by the electrolytic loading of deuterium to provide lattice fluctuations which initiate primary and secondary deuterium-deuterium fusion reactions at sites in the actinide metal lattice producing fast neutrons.

      5. A deuterided fuel element as claimed in claim 4 where said fast neutrons fission the actinides comprising said nuclear fuel element.

      6. A deuterided fuel element as claimed in claim 5 then sealed with an amalgam of compounds to prevent isotopic hydrogen deloading through desorption.

      7. The deuterided fuel element of claim 6 further comprising an apparatus for pulsed control that produces acoustic, thermal, radiofrequency or other emanations attached to the deuterided fuel element and periodically enhancing local actinide-deuterium loading resulting in deuteron fluctuations producing primary and secondary deuterium-deuterium fusion reactions and neutrons.

      8. A deuterided fuel element as claimed in claim 7 where said neutrons fission the actinides comprising said fuel element.

      9. A plurality of said deuterided fuel elements as claimed in claim 8 arranged to irradiate and fission a spent nuclear fuel element, or a plurality of nuclear spent fuel elements, with fast primary and secondary deuterium-deuterium fusion reaction neutrons.

      10. A plurality of said spent nuclear fuel elements arranged around said deuterided fuel elements claimed in claim 9 to act as fast neutron reflectors while also fissioning said spent fuel elements.

      11. A nuclear spent fuel pool comprised of a plurality of said spent fuel elements and deuterided fuel elements as claimed in claim 10.

      12. A method for removing heat generated by the primary and secondary deuterium-deuterium fusion reactions in said deuterided fuel elements and from fast neutron fission of said spent fuel elements.


  2. Greg Goble Says:

    CELEBRATE – The imagining of cold fusion!

    So many of our greatest imagine, “What is the usefulness of imagining?”

    Of course, this brings the energy from our hearts… through your precious eyes.

    Love you,


    So soon.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      The race to cold fusion LENR energy is on

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Poets and artists and such imagine. The discoverers, the explorers, and the inventors imagine, with their feet planted solidly on the ground. The patho-skeptics don’t imagine at all, with their feet planted solidly on the ground.


    Dear Sir, Whether it works or not, time factor isn’t in favor of long time search for a solution to the carbon dioxide emissions. However, a solution is at hand and seeking finance. In case of interest, I would be pleased to provide full details. Thanking you, Sincerely yours,

    E.M.El-Hammamy Professional Engineer,CA,U.S.A. International Business Advisor P.R.China

    • Roger Bird Says:

      There is no carbon dioxide emissions problem. There is a pollution problem. There is the problem of human beings adusting to climate change, which is inevitable. There is the problem of liberal hysteria about human caused global warming. There is the problem of the science and academic communities being stupidly hide bound. But there is no carbon dioxide emissions problem. Plants love all that extra carbon dioxide. If plants love it, I love it.

  4. jetmech Says:

    same deal check it out.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, I say this as someone who has had an out-of-body-experience: If the Keely engine is so great, why don’t you make one? You could become richer than God and show all those skeptics how foolish and little they are.

      • gbgoble Says:


        The tree a tempest with a crash of wood
        Throws down in front of us is not to bar

        Our passage to our journey’s end for good,
        But just to ask us who we think we are,

        Insisting always on our own way so.
        She likes to halt us in our runner tracks,

        And make us get down in a foot of snow
        Debating what to do with an ax.

        And yet who knows obstruction is in vain:
        We will not be put off the final goal

        We have hidden in us to attain,
        Not though we have to seize earth by the pole

        And, tired of aimless circling in one place,
        Steer straight off after something into space.

        (To hear us talk) by Robert Frost

  5. jetmech Says:

    Rodger Bird WTF are you talking about?
    Great that you had a “out of Body experience”
    What does that have to do with the parallel with KEELY and Rossi?
    What does one SCAM have (KEELY) have to do with the Rossi SCAM?
    So You (Roger Bird) are trying to obfuscate and confuse!
    Let me put it bluntly
    The Rossi SCAM and the Keely Scam are one and the same!
    They are the SAME SCAM!

    Check it out (same link same logic) Roger do your LOGIC!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Jetmech, I have no idea what you are talking about. The posts that you are commenting on are probably so old that that I can’t remember them or the context. Yes, I had an OOBE; but what does that have to do with anything here?

  6. jetmech Says:

    WOW “out of body experience” that makes you a what?
    OK A “WTF” commenter?
    What is ridiculous to the power of infinity?

  7. jetmech Says:

    Mr Bird let me put it more bluntly you can quote me “the Rossi Ecat Scam” is pretty much EXACTLY what the “KEELY Scam” was.
    Do not pretend to be stupid on this point.
    I will again leave YOU with this link

    The “Ecat” is a scam
    Keely was a scam! (Rossi is a scam artist as was Keely)!

    Now knowing how i stand answer me this –

    Is Rossi a SCAM ARTIST or NOT?

    Yes OR no!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, I have another choice, and you don’t control my choices. I don’t know if Rossi is a scam or not. And I know nothing about Keely. And I think that your comments addressed to me are incoherent. And don’t be surprised if you are banned.

  8. jetmech Says:

    To put it ever so MORE bluntly is Rossi a SCAM or not a SCAM?
    Please answer Mr Roger Bird!
    Or just keep pretending to be stupid and worry about carbon emmisions!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, have you taken your medicine today.

      I am not worried about carbon emissions. And, again, I don’t know if Rossi is a scam or not, and I will stand by that until I get better evidence one way or the other.

  9. jetmech Says:

    when will you decide?
    1 year from now
    2 years from now?
    10 years?
    No product produced or independently verified yet.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I don’t respond well to coercion, even if it is only verbal and/or emotional. I will decide when he is real or crooked when I feel like it. I have already expressed here and elsewhere my doubts.

  10. jetmech Says:

    coercion? A question is “coercion”?
    I really do not think it is a question of “real” or “crooked”
    It is a question of how YOU and others think!
    How could something like this be real?
    How could you possibly think something like the “Rossi Ecat”
    could be real? (as advertised by Rossi).
    What makes you think that all the known laws (as discovered by looking at nature and how “she” works) of physics are wrong?
    The “laws of physics” have been discovered NOT “made up by science”!
    This is a fundamental divide by you and others!
    The “laws of physics” are NOT man made!
    They are the “laws of nature” DISCOVERED by Scientists!
    NOT “made” by scientists!
    They are NOT man made!
    They are the “laws of nature”!
    How could something that violates these “laws of nature” exist?
    is it “supernatural”?
    Does GOD will the Rossi Ecat to exist?
    Is “Mind Reading” a possibility in your world?
    Thousands of years of looking at nature is suddenly cut short?
    Rossi is right and all of the studies of nature are wrong?
    It goes beyond that
    You and others like you reject science that has brought us microwaves, radar, solid state lasers, transistors,light emmiting diodes, lasers, laser diodes, computers etc. It existst!
    My question is why do YOU believe Rossi has circumvented all of science?
    AND why has he not “Independently ” verified his claim?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      It gives me great pleasure to tell you that I only read the first line of your post. When you tone it down, I may start reading your entire posts.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, “My question is why do YOU believe Rossi has circumvented all of science?
      AND why has he not “Independently ” verified his claim?

      Jetmech, your blinders are too solidly fixed to your face. There is a broader picture than Rossi that you are not seeing (refusing to see?). Part of that picture is found here:

      The simple reality is that Rossi is fully unnecessary to prove the validity of LENR. Seeing as LENR is proven by others, by notable scientists working for notable scientific organizations, your statement, “What makes you think that all the known laws (as discovered by looking at nature and how “she” works) of physics are wrong?” is no longer challenged by Rossi, but by the others.

      Rossi, while very probably presenting the real thing, is unnecessary to establish the scientific validity of LENR.

  11. jetmech Says:

    No YOUR blinders are fixed in place.
    You refuse to see the awesome complexity of nature!
    All of you keep throwing “LENR” into your arguments, why?
    what does The Rossi Ecat have to do with LENR?
    Since for all practical purposes it (Ecat) does not exist how can you
    say it has something to do with LENR?
    Something that has not even been proven to exist (as advertised by
    a blogger in Florida named Rossi) has something to do with a Phenomenon called LENR which has at it’s best have proven to have marginal results!
    It is a scam.
    And it is the very same type of scam as perpetrated by John W Keely!
    Exactly the same!

    That is why i referred you to this website –

    Take any one of these scams apart
    Black Light Power
    Dennis Lee
    Stanley Meyer
    Rossi Ecat
    MEG (motionless Electric Generator)
    many many more

    ALL the same
    They do not EVER produce a device!
    They sell LICENCES to other people!
    Sound familiar?
    (fa mil liar)
    AGAIN what does Rossi have to do with LENR?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Really insecure people try to force others to adopt their perspective on things.

    • gbgoble Says:


      The nest instinct through
      True imaginings delight
      Leads to what’s right

      Color the lining new
      Tufts soft and light
      Bits shiny bright

      Into completion it grew
      Winged creatures alight
      Home for the night


      1. To come down and settle, as after flight.
      2. To come by chance: alight on a happy solution.
      3. To dismount from a horse or vehicle.

      Word Origin & History
      Alight: “on fire,” early 15c., apparently from M.E. aliht , pp. of alihton (O.E. on-lihtan ) “to light up,” also “to shine upon” [Middle English alighten , from Old English ālīhtan : ā- , intensive pref. + līhtan , to relieve of a burden (from līht , light ; see light 2 ).] (orig. an animal mount) of weight.

  12. jetmech Says:

    unrelated post
    but yes banning people with opinions that are opposite
    to your point of view is all too common!
    Surrounding yourself with fawning sycophants is
    becoming the NORM!
    Just watch FAUX NEWS and go to sleep!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      People get banned for being rude and obnoxious, not for having differing viewpoints. Craig Binns is an example of a polite person who is still welcome here and in fact comes back occasionally. There are others.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      No one is fawning. To have no opinion about the reality of the E-Cat is not believing in the E-Cat. Why can’t you emotionally unstable people understand that?

  13. brucefast Says:

    Jetmech, “No YOUR blinders are fixed in place. You refuse to see the awesome complexity of nature!” Huh? Non Sequitur.

    Jetmech, you said,”My question is why do YOU believe Rossi has circumvented all of science?” The first question that must be addressed is the scientific legitimacy of LENR. LENR is the phenomenon that circumvents all of science. If LENR then all of science is circumvented, Rossi or not. If not LENR then Rossi is certainly a fraud.

    PS: This is my playground. I decide who plays here. So far I have kicked one person off, the infamous MaryYugo. If you dialog, and maintain reasonable decorum, I will not kick you off. If you monologue (don’t reasonably answer questions proposed to you) or act too rudely, well, play fair or don’t play at all.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, I spend about 1% of my online time keeping an eye on Rossi. I don’t disbelieve him; I don’t believe him. I am neutral. I also have no desire or reason to defend the current dominent scientific paradigm. I don’t give a fig if the dominent scientific paradigm stands or falls. Life will go on either way.

  14. jetmech Says:

    First of all we are arguing about a device that does not exist,
    There is NO “Rossi Ecat” there is no device called the “ROSSI ECAT” that has been sold to an independent buyer or tested by
    an independent testing agency.
    For all practical purposes it does not exist!
    IF it did exist would it “circumvent all known science”

    Now why do i say it follows the dealings of John W Keely?

    If and when such a device enters the market place or is verified
    to exist by any testing agency (and then enters the marketplace)
    You have an argument to which i will quickly concede!
    Until then WTF are we arguing about?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech’s attitude is not that of an explorer or a discoverer. To jetmech and many other skeptics, if something has not been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it does not exist. This is incredibly lame philosophy and it discovers nothing. If everyone held that viewpoint, there would be NO progress. Fortunately, there are many people who are will try stuff that they are not sure of.

      To me, if something has not been proven, it is an open question. Rarely can it be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that something does not exist. Unicorns may exist in some dimension, but probably not in this one. Well, almost certainly not in this one. And that is as far as good philosophy will allow me to go.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, WTF are we arguing about is not the Ecat, if it exists. We are arguing about whether we can say whether the Ecat does not exist. I say that it is philosophically stupid to say that it does not exist, and I don’t have enough evidence to say that it does exist. The argument is not about the Ecat; it is about having the humility to say and admit that one does not know and be OK with for a while, as long as you aren’t giving Rossi any of your money. You are insisting that we declare whether we believe that it exists or does not exist. There is a third alternative, and that alternative is where most of us are at: We don’t know for sure but it sure is interesting to keep an eye on it now and then.

  15. jetmech Says:

    How can you argue about something that does not yet exist?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      And jetmech, I am glad that you are here because it allows me to shine philosophically speaking, because you are so philosphically retarded, like most scientists and most Americans.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      jetmech, most people here are motivated by hope. We cannot relate to a person driven by despair. Don’t say you’re here to rescue us from our disillusions because you’re not that nice.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Furthermore, despair is just as much fantasy based has hope, except hope is much more productive and much more fun.

        Plus, every patho-skeptic that I have ever met says that they are raining on the parade in order to help other people.

    • Gregory Byron Goble Says:


      It’s of great use to wonder
      Why our minds wander
      In awe of it all

      Being forever true
      Seeking the new

      We are just now discovering
      That which has always been

      Impatiently awaiting us
      Craving our keen attention
      Hoping for deeper understanding

      Awesome is
      The wonder of discovery

      And the power
      Of awe


    • Gregory Byron Goble Says:

      As published in the July 2012 issue of The Journal of Petroleum Technology, the official magazine of Society of Petroleum Engineers.

      On the Precipice Of a New Energy Source?
      Journal of Petroleum Technology ^ | July 2012 | Steve Jacobs, COO, and Patrick Leach, CEO, Decision Strategies

      “So what can be done to prepare for LENR? First, watch it closely and do not let skepticism blind you. When the Wright Brothers flew their first plane at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, the scientific community reportedly argued for years after the fact over whether a heavier-than-air craft could actually fly. Even the most obvious evidence was not enough to make some people abandon their preconceived notions of what was possible. Drake had to battle similar skepticism when he drilled the first oil well; many people in Pennsylvania called it “Drake’s Folly.”

      It is also important to evaluate the specific impact that LENR would have on an individual company. How well positioned is your company to weather such a disruptive storm, or to capitalize on these potential opportunities? If LENR becomes a reality, you do not want to fly blindly into the side of a mountain. Investigate creative ways for your company to participate in the LENR market.While this new technology will be disruptive to a number of industries, there will also be business opportunities in the manufacturing, installation, and servicing of LENR systems in multiple applications and sizes around the globe. Millions of LENR units of varying sizes will be required because of the distributed nature of this energy technology.”

    • Gregory Byron Goble Says:

      John Petrovic
      Energy Materials Consultant
      Cape Canaveral, Florida (Melbourne, Florida Area) Research

      Energy Materials Technical Consultant at Petrovic and Associates

      Primary Technical Materials Expert at U.S. Department of Energy Office of Hydrogen, Fuel Cells and Infrastructure Technologies
      Laboratory Fellow at Los Alamos National Laboratory
      Materials Scientist/Air Force Officer at U.S. Air Force Aerospace Research Laboratories

      Case Western Reserve University

      Technical consultant on advanced materials for emerging new energy systems for automotive power, distributed power, and portable power generation. Significant expertise in materials for hydrogen production, storage, fuel cells, energy storage materials, and high temperature materials.

      Retired Fellow of the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

      Fuel cell materials
      Battery materials
      Hydrogen storage materials
      Hydrogen production materials
      Low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) materials
      Taylor microwire
      MoSi2-based high temperature materials
      High temperature structural ceramic composites
      Microwave processing
      Ceramic armor materials
      High temperature superconducting ceramics
      Synthesis and processing of structural ceramics
      Fracture of ceramics under multiaxial loading conditions
      Indentation fracture mechanics of ceramics

      From his website “Science of Spirituality”

      “The notion that Science and Spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.” – Carl Sagan

      You may be asking yourself how can there be any Science in Spirituality. These two areas are considered by many people today to be fundamentally opposed to each other. After all, doesn’t Science deal with the material world while Spirituality deals with the non-material, and never the two shall meet.

      Yet the fact of the matter is that the primary goal of Science is to understand and describe reality. And the reality is that the root fundamentals of Science converge with the metaphysical. In addition, there are a great many “inconvenient truths”, observational facts that cannot be explained using our current scientific paradigms. For Science to progress, it must come to grips with issues that seem to reside in the Spirituality of the non-physical.

      One should not confuse Spirituality with Religion. Spirituality encompasses the nature of the non-physical, while Religion involves belief systems. The two are not the same.

      As a scientist, I am compelled to search for reality in whatever direction that search may take me.

  16. jetmech Says:

    Philosophically retarded? Really? WTF is that? (I AM ROLLING ALL OVER THE FLOOR LAUGHING! TNX) (and it’s a COLD tile floor!)
    Cant stop laughing!
    Like “I think there for I am”?
    Cogito ergo sum?

    Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung !
    Friedrich Nietzsche


    “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
    Friedrich Nietzsche”

    So I am a “patho-skeptic”? which means what? (Only Bill Beaty could answer that)

    So in ALL of these so called “answers” to the main question
    of does the Rossi Ecat actually exist as Rossi (a blogger in Florida) claims it it works?I can discern no answer to that question just obfuscation!

    “A pair of powerful spectacles has sometimes sufficed to cure a person in love.”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Science in Spirituality? I do not know what point you are trying to make.

    “Yet the fact of the matter is that the primary goal of Science is to understand and describe reality”


    For all the rest of the discourse it is best described as BS or WTF BS!

    TNX for the “Philosophically retarded” thing. It was quite comical and made me laugh!
    Really funny!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, in this particular case, you are philosophically retarded because you think that if something has not been proven to be true that it does not exist. Like America did not exist until Columbus discovered it. [sarcasm] And you ROTFL when I use the word “philosophy” because you are a philosophical retard.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Cold Fusion/ LENR is…

      Like an ocean wave that is peaceful and powerful!

      Never suffer fools who try to disrupt Its’ path…

      Unaffected by any such things as that

      It will roll on and on and on…

      Effortlessly and endlessly

      Frothy and foaming

      And bubbling…

      Silent energy

      In Its’


      Cold Fusion



  17. jetmech Says:

    TNX that made me laugh!

    • gbgoble Says:


      Practicing patience
      ….. is such a timeless.


      Waiting to make sense
      …. really is nerveless.

      Watched … a pot… or is it not,

      Boiling with fury

      Time… is…
      Such a rot!




  18. jetmech Says:

    SO does the “Rossi Ecat” exist as a working device or not?
    What is the concern about anything else?
    I never posed a question about LENR or ANYTHING other
    than the “claimed” existence of the “Rossi Ecat”!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I cannot be sure that the Rossi E-Cat exists or not. Your insistence on a “yes” or “no” answer is philosophical retardation, and it is obnoxious.

    • gbgoble Says:

      Headwaters of Exuberance

      Deep pool of indigo blue
      Silent and still…

      Pure breadth of
      Innocence new…

      Silent yet
      Dawn breaks…

      Life awakes
      Silent yet Full…

      Heart centers
      Silent yet…



      Ever still
      Life awakes…




  19. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Frost came to a fork and took the road less traveled.
    Yogi came to a fork and took it.
    Rossi came to a dead-end and blazed a new path into uncharted science.

  20. jetmech Says:

    Rossi came to a dead end fork and sold it on ebay as a “dead end fork”!
    I am “philosophically challenged”?

    If i even ask the question about “The Emperoes new clothes”?

    Once upon a time there lived a vain Emperor whose only worry in life was to dress in elegant clothes. He changed clothes almost every hour and loved to show them off to his people.

    Word of the Emperor’s refined habits spread over his kingdom and beyond. Two scoundrels who had heard of the Emperor’s vanity decided to take advantage of it. They introduced themselves at the gates of the palace with a scheme in mind.

    “We are two very good tailors and after many years of research we have invented an extraordinary method to weave a cloth so light and fine that it looks invisible. As a matter of fact it is invisible to anyone who is too stupid and incompetent to appreciate its quality.”

    The chief of the guards heard the scoundrel’s strange story and sent for the court chamberlain. The chamberlain notified the prime minister, who ran to the Emperor and disclosed the incredible news. The Emperor’s curiosity got the better of him and he decided to see the two scoundrels.

    “Besides being invisible, your Highness, this cloth will be woven in colors and patterns created especially for you.” The emperor gave the two men a bag of gold coins in exchange for their promise to begin working on the fabric immediately.

    “Just tell us what you need to get started and we’ll give it to you.” The two scoundrels asked for a loom, silk, gold thread and then pretended to begin working. The Emperor thought he had spent his money quite well: in addition to getting a new extraordinary suit, he would discover which of his subjects were ignorant and incompetent. A few days later, he called the old and wise prime minister, who was considered by everyone as a man with common sense.

    “Go and see how the work is proceeding,” the Emperor told him, “and come back to let me know.”

    The prime minister was welcomed by the two scoundrels.

    “We’re almost finished, but we need a lot more gold thread. Here, Excellency! Admire the colors, feel the softness!” The old man bent over the loom and tried to see the fabric that was not there. He felt cold sweat on his forehead.

    “I can’t see anything,” he thought. “If I see nothing, that means I’m stupid! Or, worse, incompetent!” If the prime minister admitted that he didn’t see anything, he would be discharged from his office.

    “What a marvelous fabric, he said then. “I’ll certainly tell the Emperor.” The two scoundrels rubbed their hands gleefully. They had almost made it. More thread was requested to finish the work.

    Finally, the Emperor received the announcement that the two tailors had come to take all the measurements needed to sew his new suit.

    “Come in,” the Emperor ordered. Even as they bowed, the two scoundrels pretended to be holding large roll of fabric.

    “Here it is your Highness, the result of our labour,” the scoundrels said. “We have worked night and day but, at last, the most beautiful fabric in the world is ready for you. Look at the colors and feel how fine it is.” Of course the Emperor did not see any colors and could not feel any cloth between his fingers. He panicked and felt like fainting. But luckily the throne was right behind him and he sat down. But when he realized that no one could know that he did not see the fabric, he felt better. Nobody could find out he was stupid and incompetent. And the Emperor didn’t know that everybody else around him thought and did the very same thing.

    The farce continued as the two scoundrels had foreseen it. Once they had taken the measurements, the two began cutting the air with scissors while sewing with their needles an invisible cloth.

    “Your Highness, you’ll have to take off your clothes to try on your new ones.” The two scoundrels draped the new clothes on him and then held up a mirror. The Emperor was embarrassed but since none of his bystanders were, he felt relieved.

    “Yes, this is a beautiful suit and it looks very good on me,” the Emperor said trying to look comfortable. “You’ve done a fine job.”

    “Your Majesty,” the prime minister said, “we have a request for you. The people have found out about this extraordinary fabric and they are anxious to see you in your new suit.” The Emperor was doubtful showing himself naked to the people, but then he abandoned his fears. After all, no one would know about it except the ignorant and the incompetent.

    “All right,” he said. “I will grant the people this privilege.” He summoned his carriage and the ceremonial parade was formed. A group of dignitaries walked at the very front of the procession and anxiously scrutinized the faces of the people in the street. All the people had gathered in the main square, pushing and shoving to get a better look. An applause welcomed the regal procession. Everyone wanted to know how stupid or incompetent his or her neighbor was but, as the Emperor passed, a strange murmur rose from the crowd.

    Everyone said, loud enough for the others to hear: “Look at the Emperor’s new clothes. They’re beautiful!”

    “What a marvellous train!”

    “And the colors! The colors of that beautiful fabric! I have never seen anything like it in my life!” They all tried to conceal their disappointment at not being able to see the clothes, and since nobody was willing to admit his own stupidity and incompetence, they all behaved as the two scoundrels had predicted.

    A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.

    “The Emperor is naked,” he said.

    “Fool!” his father reprimanded, running after him. “Don’t talk nonsense!” He grabbed his child and took him away. But the boy’s remark, which had been heard by the bystanders, was repeated over and over again until everyone cried:

    “The boy is right! The Emperor is naked! It’s true!”

    The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He though it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn’t see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent. And he stood stiffly on his carriage, while behind him a page held his imaginary mantle.

    YES YOU ARE seeing the truth!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Such a long rant indicates that you are very angry and upset about something. Are you angry and upset because we do not agree with you? Why should our agreement or disagreement mean that much to you?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Rossi is not our emperor. Evidence is our emperor, and currently there is not enough evidence one way or the other to decide whether Rossi is a fraud or not. However, there is enough evidence to indicate the jetmech is philosophically retarded and emotionally unstable.

  21. jetmech Says:

    Philosophically retarded?
    LOL can”t stop laughing
    Somewhere an invisible Rossi Ecat exists that only “you” see!
    I am that boy that sees how it truly looks !

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Your philosophical retardation seems to be based upon your tendency to delude yourself. We don’t believe Rossi; we don’t disbelieve Rossi. You are just upset that we don’t agree with you and so you misrepresent our position.

  22. jetmech Says:

    TNX I am rolling all over laughing thanks you guys!
    AN “invisible Ecat” is out there somewhere!

    SO funny!

    Maybe next time it will be a 4000 degree “super hot Ecat”
    from a “BLOGGER IN FLORIDA”!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Bruce, we have a live one here. Isn’t it more fun when we have a patho-skeptic who is so far gone that he/she has to misrepresent our position. Sanity includes being able to withhold judgment until all the evidence is in.

    • brucefast Says:

      Roger, please tone the insults WAY down!

      Jetmech, the last time you posted, I asked you a question, which you didn’t answer. I’ll rephrase, “do you believe that an ‘excessive heat’ phenomenon which is being called LENR has been happening in ANYONE’s lab?”

      If you need reference material to help you come to a conclusion, consider the links at:

  23. jetmech Says:

    Why yes there is a very very small excessive heat phenomenom from some LENR labs!I will admit!

    Again what does that have to do with Rossi?

    Or “misrepresent” ANY position?

    Since the “Rossi Ecat” has NOT been shown (proven, sold etc) to exist I am at a loss to say why the Rossi Ecat has anything to do with LENR!

    Or with ANYTHING!

    What does the “ROSSI ECAT” have to do with ANYTHING?
    Other than a “blogger in Florida”?

    Named Andrea Rossi?
    AGAIN why does an UNPROVEN “Rossi Ecat” have ANYTHING to
    do with LENR?
    Why do you keep saying “LENR” and associating it with ROSSI?

  24. jetmech Says:

    All the evidence is in
    Black light power
    Dennis lee
    Stanley Meyer
    Tom Bearden
    Joseph Newman
    ON AND ON!

    And on and on ALL the scam artists in ONE place plus many
    What does the “Rossi scam” have to do with ANYTHING?

  25. gbgoble Says:

    Weather Driven Laughter

    I am so glad!
    That the weather
    driven waves of

    Crash upon your shore

    Laughter crests

    Illuminated Bubbles
    rising… to…

    The top!

    Gently it then


    The whispering

    and swishing

    Sands of Time…

    Love… love

    An addendum to this prose:

    From ‘A Son of His Father’

    A novel by Harold Bill Wright
    Copyright 1925, by D. Appleton and Company
    presented as an Irish Folk Song pg. 253

    When the blue divils swarm all around you
    And the life yer livin’ is hell;

    When the saints you have prayed to protect you
    Seem to be off their jobs for a spell;

    When the world is that black wid disaster
    That ye swear it wad be sweet to die

    Sure ‘tis then that ye’ll need to remember
    That ‘tis better to laugh than to cry.

    For a smile will go farther, my darlin’,
    Than a fist full of jewels and gold;

    “Tis the hearty guffaw and the merry ha-ha
    Keeps this old world from growin’ too old.

    A heart filled wid mirth is the salt of the earth
    But there’s no good at all in a sigh;

    So ye’ll not be forgettin’, mavoureen,
    That ‘tis better to laugh than to cry.

    The old divil can do but his worst, my dear,
    As the saints can do only their best;

    If ye laugh when yer hurt and don’t worry,
    Sure the heavens will take the rest;

    All the angels above do be smilin’
    On the one who can make troubles fly,

    So ye’ll heed me, dear heart, and be cheery
    For ‘tis better to laugh than to cry.

    BE WELL Y’ALL… GBGoble2013

  26. jetmech Says:

    Again yes gbgoble you get it! it is better to laugh! TO LOL all over the place at this Ecat farce!

    Columbus DID NOT “Discover” America!
    The Asians who crossed the frozen “land bridge” Bering strait were probably the
    first! 11,000 years ago!
    And the the Vikings about 500 years BEFORE Columbus?

    Columbus landed in South America anyway.
    So what is your point?

    The Rossi Ecat (scam) goes way beyond “proof that it exists”!
    Rossi “says” it exists!

    Columbus was looking for a route to asia!

    So where is a working as “Rossi claims it to work” Ecat?
    Nowhere (man)!

    He’s as blind as he can be,
    Just sees what he wants to see,
    Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

    Nowhere Man, don’t worry,
    Take your time, don’t hurry,
    Leave it all till somebody else
    lends you a hand!

    Doesn’t have a point of view,
    Knows not where he’s going to,
    Isn’t he a bit like you and me?

    Nowhere Man please listen,
    you don’t know what you’re missing
    Nowhere Man, the world is at your command!

    He’s a real Nowhere Man,
    Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
    Making all his nowhere plans
    for nobody.
    Making all his nowhere plans
    for nobody.
    Making all his nowhere plans
    for nobody!

    Thats my take on a blogger in Florida!

    Who makes claims about a device called “The Ecat”!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, your mentioning that “Columbus DID NOT ‘Discover’ America!” is pure, pointless polemics, and thanks to the pointless point, you managed to miss my point. I am not sure but perhaps it was because you wanted to miss my point. Columbus discovered America for Europeans not because he had the correct theory; he had in fact the WRONG theory, unlike LENR researchers, who have NO theory, or at least their theory is not driving their research. Their theory is following along behind, trying to catch up with the observations. So, if Columbus can discover America (for Europeans), a seriously major discovery, with the WRONG theory, the we can discover and develop LENR with NO theory.

  27. brucefast Says:


    You are starting to look like someone who can’t read. WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU THAT ROSSI HAS NOT PROVEN THAT HIS E-CAT WORKS!


    You continuing to think that it is the point is beginning to make you look stupid.

    Above (January 18, 2013 at 9:07 am) I corrected your point about Rossi’s e-cat ““IF it did exist would it “circumvent all known science”. It is not Rossi’s e-cat that circumvents all known science, it is LENR*!.

    LENR is the point, LENR is the debate, LENR is the phenomenon that the community here sees as valid scientific data that is being ignored.

    *By LENR, I do not mean a particular theory, but an over-unity heat output from a reaction such as nickel + hydrogen, or paladium + hydrogen.

  28. jetmech Says:

    Pointless Polemics!
    LENR “is the debate”?
    You actually agree that Rossi has nothing?
    Then We agree Rossi has nothing he is merely a blogger in Florida!
    AGREED! That was my point and we have agreed Rossi so far has nothing!
    The pursuit of LENR goes on DESPITE of Rossi!
    Then we agree!
    I agree that the Science of LENR should go on and Rossi be
    ignored is ALL I WISH!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      We agree about nothing. You say that Rossi is a scammer. I don’t say. I don’t say anything about Rossi being bogus or not. We disagree.

  29. jetmech Says:

    By the way “circumvent all known science”. It is not Rossi’s e-cat that circumvents all known science, it is LENR*!.

    IS NOT WHAT I SAID _ I SAID “The Rossi Ecat circumvents all known Science”

    Not LENR the Rossi Ecat!

    • brucefast Says:

      LENR circumvents all known science. LENR is labeled by wikipedia and others as “pathological science”.

      If LENR is true, then Rossi’s only claims to have harnessed this new science, not that he discovered it.

      Rossi is dishonest, that cannot be disputed. Does he have what he claims? Most likely not totally so. However, just because someone does not always tell the truth, doesn’t mean that they never tell the truth.

      What does Rossi have? I don’t know. Is Rossi a scammer with nothing? I don’t know that. Does Rossi have a 1mw LENR engine that is 1/2 the size of a 50 gallon drum, and outputs it energy at 1000c? I don’t know that.

      Do I ignore Rossi? Put the following search terms into google, and you will see: “Rossi is beside the point”

      I am unwilling to make the strong statement that you make, declaring Rossi to be a scammer. I will say, however, that for me he is suspect, not to be trusted.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I agree 100% with Bruce. I will say, however, that he probably has something amazing, but I don’t know what and he is certainly not ready to go to market, or else he would be in the market. And there is still room in my mind for him to be some kind of bogus poser.

  30. jetmech Says:

    Again ON POINT the “Rossi Ecat” is the discussion NOT

    • Greg Goble Says:

      This may be just ‘academic’.
      MAy be worth sharing with you though… follow?

      Enjoy research. “Swihart said the discrepancy is due to geometry.”

      This (geometry) on a nano scale understanding may be the key to many quantum phenomenon, LENR included. Plasma on the nano level is also intriguing, waves and harmonics come into influence. Query leads to an elementary understanding of both gravity, advanced magnetics, the warping of space time, and the role of anti matter (google-van allen belt anti matter).

      Nano Silicon Powder Produces Hydrogen Without Energy
      January 23, 2013

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, start your own bloody blog! This is my blog. I make the rules, not you. This blog is about LENR, with an emphasis on nickel + hydrogen LENR.

      That is that!

  31. jetmech Says:

    ok so what? (Greg Goble)
    And what does that have to do with the validity of the “Rossi Ecat”?

    What does a jumble of “scientific sounding” mumbo jumbo have to do with ANYTHING?

    Gosh that is a lot of words thrown together that do connect!

    You might as well say “Toyota Corollas on the nano level can
    be transformed into plasma and converted into Hondas and can
    explain ALL of KNOWN PHYSICS!”
    And an elementary explanation of Bumper Warping on Fords!

    OK That is why it is called “mumbo jumbo”.
    OR “psuedo scientific jargon”

    • Greg Goble Says:

      You say critic, I say critique, let’s call the whole thing off.

      Pondering this… What in the World?
      A black hole within a black hole within a black hole….

      A theory “The Black Whole”

  32. jetmech Says:

    I found a very good link

    And another tid bit!

    Critical thinking is thinking that questions assumptions. It is a way of deciding whether a claim is always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false. Critical thinking can be traced in Western thought to the Socratic method of Ancient Greece and in the East, to the Buddhist kalama sutta and Abhidharma. Critical thinking is an important component of most professions.

    “Critical thinking is the careful, deliberate determination of whether we should accept, reject, or suspend judgment about a claim–and of the degree of confidence with which we accept or reject it”.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Ya know, jetmech is not actually contributing to this discussion. We had a real physicists here about 6 months ago, a skeptic, whose name escapes me, and he was actually contributing. But 90% of the time I don’t even know what jetmech’s point is.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Jetmech – a while back you pointed at Keely as an example of misplaced belief. That was useful, and I also found out that there are people who still believe that Keely really had a perpetual motion machine.

      I think the consensus here is that we don’t know Rossi’s game, and that we know we don’t know. That is critical thinking, since there isn’t yet the information to prove it one way or another. As such, no need to be shrill or to shout in discussion – he’s not burning your money or mine. If his investors lose patience, they’ll pull the plug, so we can presume reasonably that they’ve seen better evidence than we have.

      It’s hard to wait for something as important as this to emerge, when we can’t be sure it’s even going to be real. Still, the clues are that both Rossi and Defkalion have had some successes, just not when they wanted to show other people.

      There are now enough other people working on the ideas (maybe because Rossi claimed success too early) and we are pretty certain that Ni-H can work. There will be a version for sale – possibly by Brillouin if the self-proclaimed leaders don’t get their acts together soon.

      If Rossi was the subject matter, I’m sure Bruce would have called this site “RossiPower” and you’d have some reason to keep on about Rossi. As it is, it’s Nickelpower, which encompasses all the applications of Ni-H and quite a few off-topic things when things are quiet.

      Roger – you’re probably talking about Peter Thieberger. I’m sure he’ll be back from time to time.

  33. jetmech Says:

    Iggy Dalrymple implies i inhale cleaning fluids on my job?
    I guess Iggy Dalrymple lives with his parents and has no job.

    I am sorry that I do not claim to be a “Nuclear Physicist”
    As Iggy claims to be a person living with his Mom.

    Ok Simon D “misplaced belief” yeah you got it!

    Rossi AND Keely are the same! Thus the “misplaced belief” in Rossi is the same exact “misplaced belief” in Keely”

    TNX for linking Rossi to Keely as I have!
    The very same SCAM carried out the very same way!


    • Roger Bird Says:

      If you demean Iggy, you are my enemy.

      I think jetmech’s point is that Rossi is scamming us. jetmech could be right. But his presentation of his viewpoint is infected with hatred and anger. Since I have not invested in Rossi and I don’t even know OF anyone who has, let alone I don’t even know anyone who has, I don’t feel the emotional upset that jetmech feels with regard to Rossi. So I suspect that jetmech’s motivation is not love for justice or humanity but upset that we don’t share his viewpoint or his anger.

      Rossi is really taking an awfully long time with this thing. I have been following this since September 2011. How much longer do we have to wait?

      • GreenWin Says:

        Could not have said it better Roger. There is a disturbed anger in jetech somewhere. And I believe there is a third party verification in process and that it is entirely out of Rossi’s hands.

  34. jetmech Says:


    What does the Rossi Ecat have to do with LENR?

  35. Greg Goble Says:

    To the wayward blogger… Mr Jetmech such a question!

    My Heart Always Knows

    My heart always goes…
    To the mountain fastness

    My heart overflows…
    With joyful gladness

    My heart always shows…
    Peace through the madness

    My heart gently holds…
    All painful sadness

    My heart always knows…
    The way….

    Yes. Yes. Yes.

    Love is… The way.

    Just say yes!


    “An Overview of Advanced Concepts for Launch”
    Report made public on 09-02-2012

    Air Force Research Laboratory (AFMC)
    10 E. Saturn Blvd.
    Edwards AFB CA 93524-7680

    For presentation at the USC Rusch Undergraduate Honors Colloquium, Los Angeles, CA, 24 Feb 2012.

    This report (pg 33) places LENR in the ‘device tested’ category.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Greg, you are beginning to sound like one of those spiritual people, like the poet M.S. Irani.

      • gbgoble Says:

        Sweet Dreams and Good Morning

        Any time
        I find my way back to poetry,

        I know that healing has begun.
        Is well underway, in fact.

        Through the night we held the hand of darkness with tenderness

        Because there exists in words the danger
        Of the ‘too many’

        And the ‘too few’.

        Understanding is all that matters.

        This is why there is a special language for the heart.

        It is poetry and only poetry the heart can trust.

        Poetry is not the words but that which inspires the heart to stillness

        or to sing like the first birds, who notice and celebrate at just the right

        moment that we are between and now.

        So, when the dawn arrived in her delicate miracle, the garbage trucks

        synchronized between you and me,
        declared in their blunt manner,



        Matter of factly, they hauled away the ‘too many’ and the ‘too few’

        to The Dump; a no-frills graveyard for things past.

        Night whispers gratitude for your patience as she drifts away, satisfied.

        And the day, like a loving farm wife preparing homemade biscuits and jam,

        serves poetry for breakfast.

        Sweet Dreams
        Good Morning.


  36. jetmech Says:

    Hatred and anger? Infected?

    I have followed this “Ecat” saga from the beginning.

    I am just stating my conclusions (of the Ecat) based on other scams
    and how this Rossi “thing” has been progressing!

    Black Light Power
    Tom Beardens MEG
    John Keely
    Stanley Meyers
    Johnson Motor

    The whole Rossi thing has changed from “demonstrating” to “selling a unit” and “secret buyers” to just downright
    scam tactics like only “selling to INVESTORS”!
    What more do you need?
    What additional facts do you require?
    The “Ecat” does not exist! If it did it would be obvious by now!
    By the way I uphold John Worrel Keely as the best!
    No one will surpass him as the best scammer!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I don’t need any evidence because I don’t need to come to a conclusion. I am perfectly comfortable with not coming to a conclusion. What is this? Zen 101?

      But it does seem like he is taking an awfully long time.

  37. jetmech Says:

    I am sorry Mr Greg Goble I meant to say “since the Rossi Ecat has NOT been proven to exist AND has not been proven to work
    as a LENR device – how can you say the Rossi Ecat has anything to do with LENR?”

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Mr. jetmech the prediliticator with the best of predictions… lined up around the block for his insight… get it here now.

      Rossi does not have an E-Cat and it is not an LENR device.

      Thank you jetmech… better than tea leaves.

      This is a tip for you about a Cold Fusion LENR Powered Boeing 747 being developed by NASA.

      May 2012 NASA Contract NNL08AA16B – NNL11AA00T
      “Subsonic Ultra Green Aircraft Research – Phase II” – N+4 Advanced Concept Development (SUGAR Phase II)

      “Even though we do not know the specific cost of the LENR itself, we assumed a cost of jet fuel at $4/gallon and weight based aircraft cost. We were able to calculate cost per mile for the LENR equipped aircraft compared to a conventional aircraft (Figure 3.2). Looking at the plots, one could select a point where the projected cost per mile is 33% less than a conventionally powered aircraft.”

      3.0 LENR Requirements Analysis …pg 24
      Figure 3.1 – Potential Heat Engines for LENR Systems 25
      Figure 3.2 – Parametric LENR and Heat Engine Performance Parameters …pg 25
      6.2.3 Low Energy Nuclear Reactor Technologies …pg 82
      Table 6.3 – LENR Technologies Success Criteria …pg 86
      Also pgs 15, 18, 19, 20, and 21.
      These are 39 folks who have been involved in this since May, 2011.
      Bradley, Marty (Boeing)
      Daggett, David (Boeing)
      Droney, Christopher(Boeing)
      Hoisington, Zachary (Boeing)
      Kirby, Michelle (GT)
      Murrow, Kurt (GE)
      Ran, Hongjun (GT)
      Nam, Teawoo (GT)
      Tai, Jimmy (GT)
      Hammel, Jeff (GE)
      Perullo, Chris (GT)
      Guynn, Mark (NASA)
      Olson, Erik (NASA)
      Leavitt, Larry (NASA)
      Allen, Timothy (Boeing)
      Cotes, Dwaine (Boeing)
      Guo, Yueping (Boeing)
      Foist, Brian (Boeing)
      Rawdon, Blaine (Boeing)
      Wakayama, Sean (Boeing)
      Dallara, Emily (Boeing)
      Kowalski, Ed (Boeing)
      Wat, Joe (Boeing)
      Robbana, Ismail (Boeing)
      Barmichev, Sergey (Boeing)
      Fink, Larry (Boeing)
      Sankrithi, Mithra (Boeing)
      White, Edward (Boeing)
      Gowda, Srini (GE)
      Brown, Gerald (NASA)
      Wahls, Richard (NASA)
      Wells, Doug (NASA)
      Jeffries, Rhett (FAA)
      Felder, James (NASA)
      Schetz, Joe (VT)
      Burley, Casey (NASA)
      Sequiera, Christopher (FAA)
      Martin, John (NASA)
      Kapania, Rakesh (VT)

      Maybe you could interview a few of these guys… see what they have to say about the emerging LENR technology (popularly known as cold fusion).

      Is Commercial LENR the Real Deal?

      For more links: Cold Fusion Now Org
      “Cold Fusion – NASA – LENR Part II Flight”

      Small plane use may soon skyrocket… the stated goal is gradually eliminating the need for roads.

      NASA Green Flight Challenge – “NASA has awarded the largest prize in aviation history, created to inspire the development of more fuel-efficient aircraft and spark the start of a new electric airplane industry. The technologies demonstrated by the CAFE Green Flight Challenge, sponsored by Google, competitors may end up in general aviation aircraft, spawning new jobs and new industries for the 21st century.”(NASA)

      Green Flight Challenge Sponsored by Google – (Final Results 2011)

      “Faster and Greener– Pocket Airports” (NASA GFC pdf)

      • gbgoble Says:

        Up your certification and you may be qualified to work om one… mr. jetmech. joyfully adoring you – greg

      • gbgoble Says:

        Thank you nicklepower…
        LENR takes place within the lattice… be they zeolytes, nickel, palladium, tungston, or carbon metal hydrates… thin films, wire, or nano powders… the geometry, pressure, and harmonics within create excitation, initiating and sustaining the non-radioactive ‘cold fusion’ nuclear phenomenon (fusion in environments less hot than the sun).

  38. jetmech Says:

    I don’t need any evidence because I don’t need to come to a conclusion. I am perfectly comfortable with not coming to a conclusion. What is this? Zen 101?

    But it does seem like he is taking an awfully long time.

    OK. Finally an honest answer!
    You do not care how long it takes!
    So in that framework ANYTHING is possible as long as we wait LONG enough? Fair assumption of your non conclusion?
    So enough Rossi’s and monkeys typing will eventually produce
    all the great literature of mankind?
    And an Ecat also?
    Somewhere in the distant future (mad max, the terminator,the time tunnel etc.) a Rossi Ecat will arise!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      No, an infinite number of monkeys typing infinitely long will eventually produce Shakespeare (not my first choice), but an infinite number of Rossis will not violate the laws of physics, even if said laws are not currently known to physics. Just because I am impatient with Rossi does not mean that I am going to start calling him a crook. I reach no conclusion, and being a victim of false accusations, I am very reluctant to accuse anyone else unless I am sure. I am sure that Rossi is getting old, and I mean that in both senses of the phrase, but I can’t say that he is a crook. In my mind, if this current trend continues with hot air after hot air, I will simply lose interest in him.

  39. jetmech Says:

    zen 101

    A special transmission outside the scriptures;
    No dependence on words and letters;
    Direct pointing to the mind of man;
    Seeing into one’s nature and attaining Buddhahood.

    Zen is sometimes called “the face-to-face transmission of the dharma outside the sutras.” Throughout the history of Zen, teachers have transmitted their realization of dharma to students by working with them face-to-face. This makes the lineage of teachers critical. A genuine Zen teacher can trace his or her lineage of teachers back to Bodhidharma, and before that to the historical Buddha, and to those Buddhas before the historical Buddha.

    Certainly, large parts of the lineage charts have to be taken on faith. But if anything is treated as sacred in Zen, it’s the teachers’ lineages. With very few exceptions, calling oneself a “Zen teacher” without having received transmission from another teacher is considered a serious defilement of Zen.

    While we’re talking about teachers, I should mention Zen masters. In my experience, the phrase “Zen master” is hardly ever heard inside Zen. Popular notions of “Zen master,” however smarmy, roughly correspond to what a Zen teacher is. The title “Zen master” in Japanese, “zenji,” is only given posthumously. In Zen, living Zen teachers are called “Zen teachers.” An especially venerable and beloved teacher is called “roshi,” which means “old man.” I’m not sure how that works when the teacher is a woman, however. In any event, if you ever run into someone who advertises himself as a “Zen master,” be skeptical.

    Bodhidharma’s definition also says that Zen is not an intellectual discipline you can learn from books. Instead, it’s a practice of studying mind and seeing into one’s nature. The main tool of this practice is zazen.

  40. jetmech Says:

    Going that far back will probably reveal an “ECAT”

  41. jetmech Says:

    Critical thinking is thinking that questions assumptions. It is a way of deciding whether a claim is always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false. Critical thinking can be traced in Western thought to the Socratic method of Ancient Greece and in the East, to the Buddhist kalama sutta and Abhidharma. Critical thinking is an important component of most professions.

    “Critical thinking is the careful, deliberate determination of whether we should accept, reject, or suspend judgment about a claim–and of the degree of confidence with which we accept or reject it”.


    • brucefast Says:

      Your list of options, “always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false”, is missing the most important option: suspending judgement aka “I don’t know”.

      In your second paragraph you appear to be quoting a formal definition of critical thinking (though you didn’t attribute a source.) This definition provides the suspended judgement option, yet this seems to have been disregarded by you.

      Please understand the importance of the “I don’t know” position. This is the place that every scientist must get to before beginning any research. All science, therefore, is driven by the ominous power of “I don’t know”.

      Further, “I don’t know” is the foundation of all open-mindedness. Think about it. If I know, then my mind is closed to other options.

      Most of the bloggers on this site have been following Mr. Rossi since 2011. Most of us have come to the “I don’t know” position.

      You have no more information about Mr. Rossi than we have. Could it possibly be that you are the one who is not doing an excellent job of practicing critical thinking?

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, you are wimping out. Please give a thoughtful response to the above post.

  42. jetmech Says:

    NO it is YOUR job to do “critical thinking”
    It is Rossi’s job to fool you!
    Think about it!
    Yes you get it “no one has information about Rossi! No one!
    How do you get “I don’t know” out of that?

    OF course you don’t know!
    That is what is fundamental about ANY claim!

    That is WHY (you don’t know) you must apply “critical thinking”
    So YOU must apply critical thinking
    And again as you must NOT understand what it means to question
    a claim as Rossi has definitely made a claim COP of 6, hot cat,
    etc works on LENR maybe etc, etc , etc ad infinitum!

    Critical thinking is thinking that questions assumptions. It is a way of deciding whether a claim is always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false. Critical thinking can be traced in Western thought to the Socratic method of Ancient Greece and in the East, to the Buddhist kalama sutta and Abhidharma. Critical thinking is an important component of most professions.

    “Critical thinking is the careful, deliberate determination of whether we should accept, reject, or suspend judgment about a claim–and of the degree of confidence with which we accept or reject it”.


    Rossi has made a claim. His claim is NOT “I don’t know”
    Your claim is “I don’t know”!
    A claim is subject to “critical thinking”!

    I don’t know is just a cop out!
    So Rossi is doing a very good job at fooling you
    and you say to me “I don’t know”? Yes i know Rossi is doing
    a very good job at fooling you or you are doing a very good
    job of fooling yourself?
    I don’t know!
    You answer!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I think that we have already been through this. Jetmech’s critical thinking leads him to call Rossi a crook, for which he has no proof. [I am sure that jetmech will think twice about doing that when someone (usually a female) falsely accuses him of a crime.] Our critical thinking leads us to say “I don’t know.”

  43. jetmech Says:

    Rossi has made a claim and it changes every week so are you saying
    You do not know WHAT claim Rossi is making?
    That I will accept and i Apologize if that is what you meant.
    You “do not know exactly what claim Rossi is making” cop of 6, hot cat, medium cat etc.
    if you meant you “do not know what claim Rossi is making” I am sorry
    You are right if there is no claim there is no need to apply “critical thinking”
    I am at a loss to what you mean by “I don’t know”!

    • Greg Goble Says:

      I suppose each of us will be gone sooner than we think… one day we come back to converse and we are no longer the one who appeared before. One day we wake up to the world, and our view of the world is no no longer the same, the world has changed The past is past, all is healed, the future is yet to be revealed.
      Mindful of the present. gbgoble2013

      ‎”A man came to Buddha to insult him — he spat on his face. Buddha wiped his face and asked the man, “Have you anything more to say?” — as if he had said something. The man was puzzled, because he never expected this type of response. He went away. The next day he came again — because the whole night he couldn’t sleep; he felt more and more that he had done something absolutely wrong, he felt guilty. The next morning he came, fell at Buddha’s feet and said, “Forgive me!”

      And Buddha said, “Who will forgive you now? The man you spat upon is no more, and the man you were who spat is no more either — so who will forgive whom? Forget about it, now nothing can be done about it. It cannot be undone — finished!… because nobody is there, both parties are dead. What can be done? You are a new man and I am a new man.”

      This is the deepest message of Heraclitus: everything flows and changes; everything moves, nothing is static. And the moment you cling, you miss reality. Your clinging becomes the problem, because reality changes and you cling…

      That’s why Buddha says there is no self. You are a river. There is no self because there is nothing unchanging in you. Buddha was thrown out of India because the Indian mind, particularly the brahmins, the Hindus, believed in a permanent self, ATMA. They always said that something is permanent, and Buddha said only change is permanent — nothing is permanent.” Osho

      Follow Cold Fusion 101 at MIT nickel power demonstrated

  44. jetmech Says:

    Let me say my piece “there is no evidence that a device called the Rossi Ecat exists as it is claimed to exist by Rossi. There is no evidence that a Rossi Ecat that works on the principle of LENR
    and transmutes nickel into copper actually exists and works as claimed by Rossi.”
    Furthermore there is no evidence that Rossi has any inclination to produce such a device (for testing or sale) And has decided to
    sell “shares” or “dealership types of transactions” to keep his
    (scam) “idea” going.
    What more can you say?
    It makes no difference that we use the words “LENR” or
    The Rossi Ecat is NON EXISTANT PERIOD!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Actually, there is plenty of evidence that the E-cat exists. The demos and the word of the Swedish scientists and other evidence. Evidence is not proof. Unconfirmed demos are not necessarily lies. The conditional word of Swedish scientists are not lies. Enough and good enough evidence may at some point become proof. We just don’t have enough evidence or quality of evidence to say that we believe Rossi proof positive. This is the problem. We have some serious evidence, but not enough to believe him. If we had no evidence, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It would be like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, you do not understand critical thinking. The word “critical” is a variant of the word critique, not of the word criticize.

      Do you have a clue what evidence is? This is evidence:

      These two phycisits have seen and touched Rossi’s device. Why would renown physicists like Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén put their reputation on the line?

      Is it possible that Rossi pulled the wool over the eyes of the former chairman of the Swedish Skeptic Society? Possibly, but this guy has specific expertise in recognizing fraud.

      Jetmech, this may not be absolute proof, but it is evidence!

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Dear Bruce, it is very common for people to not really understand the word “evidence”. I guess it is part of the epistemological retardation that is rampant in our society. For example, while arguing about or around the Bible, there will be those that say that there is no evidence that Jesus lived. The Bible is evidence that Jesus lived. (Please, I am not trying to get into a discussion of religion.). There is just no confirming evidence. Some religious will say that their faith is confirming evidence, and that very well may be, but it is not evidence that the rest of us can put our hands on.

        One piece of evidence does not proof make. Proof requires, usually, lots of evidence.

        There is also the quality of evidence that matters. Going back to my Bible example, the fact that there is, hmmm, foolish things in the Bible, like Joshua supposedly stopped the Sun for 2 hours, degrades the quality of the Bible being good evidence. Likewise, if the Swedish dude had been a homeless drunk, that would not be really great evidence. But he was the former president of the Swedish Skeptical Society, and I just can’t imagine a better individual piece of evidence.

      • BruceFast Says:

        Roger, “I just can’t imagine a better individual piece of evidence.”

        Well, I certainly can. While it is not know what interaction Dr. Essen had since the 2011 demos, The 2011 demos were very controlled. If I knew that Dr. Essen had been given truly free reign with the thing, my view of the strength of his testimony would go up a few notches.

        Jetmech, that’s what critical thinking looks like. It’s about more and less, not about certainty.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I agree. I was thinking in terms of assuming that the Swedish dude not having full control, as you say, but being a professional skeptic. We could use a better data point, like sales at Home Depot.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        There’s an Italian dude on ecatworld, Cristiano, that claims to observe Rossi and crew arriving at his shop in Ferrara, daily. Of course we have no proof that Cristiano exists. He promises that he will take photos and post them.

  45. Craig Binns Says:


    “The Bible is evidence that Jesus lived.” Indeed. Also the Bible is evidence that snakes can talk. So it’s more likely that snakes can talk than it is that Rossi’s contraption can produce enough power to boil an egg.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I knew that someone would come along and say something stupid. My point was about epistemology, not about the Bible. If the Bible says that snakes can talk, then I guess that weakens the Bible as a source of evidence. But we believe that Gilgamesh, Homer, and countless other people from deep cultural time lived, despite the fact that stories about them are rife with nonsense.

      The reason that you atheists doubt the existence of Jesus and not Homer is (1) you know that it will upset believers, and (2) you hate being reminded that morality is fundamental to consciousness.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      So many religions exist now, these and countless other ‘bibles’ throughout history are but a small part of our evolutionary process. “Evolution Through Cold Fusion” contains links to science that leads one to ponder what the future may bring.

      A New Era

      With popular cold fusion – LENR/LENT science we are on the verge of an epic technological advancement. Always there are concurrent personal, social, economic, spiritual, and philosophical advancements, our evolution as a species.

      Sociobiology is the instinctual relationship of a species with both it’s environment and with members of it’s own species. It is theorized that humanity evolved (and is evolving) along lines of empathy and compassion as the strength of cultures that propagate successfully, our own survival of the fittest. Instinct in a species evolves as the species does.

      As humanity’s instincts evolve we gain further insight. We observe interactions amongst ourselves, our universe, and its many components. We gain deeper understanding of cause and effect, it’s benefits and detriments both within and around us. Our socio – biology then evolves.

      Back in the far distant past our instinctual fear of fire warned us away, we ran like all other creatures. Over time we cautiously captured embers when fearful raging fires had passed. We learned to utilize and then create fire. This was an epic technological advancement. Our instinct had changed and we entered the Fire Era, a major step in our evolution.

      With technological advancements we then harnessed fire for metallurgy, motion, work, and the generation of electricity. As coal, liquid, gaseous, and radioactive fuels delivered more electricity, work, and motion, modern civilization experienced a surge in personal, social, economic, spiritual, and philosophical advancements. Humanity has evolved quite a bit since the dawning of the Fire Era. Concepts of the right to well-being have grown. Humanity is slowly becoming more humane.

      We are now entering the Transmutation Era. We will have unlimited, nearly free, easily available, dense, and non-polluting energy from the transmutation of elements. With excitation, the harmonic convergence of atomic particles within the lattice ensures the cold fusion LENR/LENT nuclear active phenomenon. This is an epic technological advancement; which is sure to further our evolution as a species.

      A Theory of Evolution through Cold Fusion

      Our strong survival instinct is evolving to encompass each of each other, and all life on the planet. In the past century our understanding of the biosphere and the importance of environmental stewardship has grown exponentially. Concepts of nonviolence and peace have progressed. Life’s collective right to well-being is better understood. Cold fusion/LENR/LENT technology will empower this change in our species; we will evolve to be harmonic with both our biosphere and our neighbors.

      As humanity moves into space we will consider the guaranteed right to sustenance and nutriment; with food, air, water, lodging, and health care ensured for any citizen who migrates to Mars or other space colonies. These concepts will then gain hold on Earth.

      To learn some of the science behind this theory please view
      “The Empathic Civilization” by Jeremy Rifkin.

      LENR the NASA Series

      Nuclear dense energy is required for long term manned space missions of the size and scope these folks propose. NASA states the energetics of LENR is the solution to missions planned yet unrealized.

      During the past year these two competitors have emerged, my hunch is they are each licensees of NASA LENR technology.

      Planetary Resources – The Asteroid Mining Company

      Planetary Resources is establishing a new paradigm for resource discovery and utilization that will bring the solar system into humanity’s sphere of influence.

      Deep Space Industries Inc.

      Mission: It is time to begin the harvest of space.
      The Earth is but a tiny and precious world floating in a sea of natural resources. The riches of the solar system offer humanity both unprecedented prosperity and an improved environment. The resource potential of space outstrips that of any previous frontier – without the environmental impacts.
      Asteroids are plentiful throughout the solar system. Many orbit close to the Earth and many of these carry vast deposits of resources ranging from water to metals such as iron, gold and platinum – everything we need to expand our civilization into space, to provide for our needs here at home and to increase the wealth of our planetary economy.

  46. jetmech Says:

    Thank you for proving my point Mr. Bird you believe in the supernatural. Thus to you (and Bill Beaty) ANYTHING is possible!
    Because it is “super” “natural”

    (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

    So between you and me there can be no argument!

    for you have invocated the supernatural.
    The Rossi Ecat can exist with NO explanation as can
    the face of Mary on a slice of toast!
    It is all the same!
    The Rossi Ecat exists BECAUSE you “believe” it to exist!
    The Rossi Ecat requires no proof as the existence of GOD requires no proof!

    As to Greg Goble if someone can decipher what his actual point
    is (in reference to the Rossi Ecat) it would be helpful!

    So far Mr Goble seems to be talking about anything BUT the Rossi Ecat!

    So thank you for finally taking a firm position Mr Bird.
    The Rossi Ecat needs no explanation as GOD needs
    no explanation.
    It is simply belief no more no less!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Notice the creation by jetmech of a straw man and the deliberate mis-characterization and exaggeration of my position. I am amazed that Bruce allows you to post here. I pleases me to tell you that I didn’t get very far in your idiotic post.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      ECAT ECAT ECAT ECAT or if you prefer…
      ekitty ekitty ekitty ekitty… Feral or Tame Mr. JetMech.

      Now I have adressed the CAT. jetmech anomonous now meets you.

      Many faces… please post again HACK hack… hack.

      THANKS jetmech etal.

      love the dip stick a measuerment of oil

      gbgobleverealoveverealoveverealove NO or KNOW

  47. jetmech Says:

    However Mr. Bird I would urge you to consider what the consequences would be if BILLIONS of people had access
    to this simple generator of heat energy?
    What would happen to our planet?
    Giga Watts of heat energy Terra Watts of heat energy
    suddenly available to everyone? In infinite amounts?
    Would GOD be the source of this new power?
    Or someone else?
    What entity would benefit from the heat death of our planet?
    I bet it ain’t GOD!

    • gbgoble Says:

      Heat is not the probem… exhaust is! JET MECH knows this… that is why we love him so much. Enough to ask jet mech to shut the **** what’s up!!!

  48. jetmech Says:

    if energy was free then no one would turn anything off. the result would be trillions of heat generating devices and the long term result would be a planet similar to Venus.

    Arthur C. Clark

    • GreenWin Says:

      Would you kindly provide your source for this? Arthur C. Clark was a great proponent of cold fusion. He did say this: “. . . I would call perhaps one of the greatest scandals in the history of science, the cold fusion caper. ”

    • gbgoble Says:

      This poem occured while watching birds’ stewardship of earth… Silly humans.


      The nest instinct through…
      True imaginings delight.

      Leads to what’s right.
      Color the lining new…

      Tufts soft and light,
      Bits shiny bright…

      Into completion it grew.

      Winged creatures alight..
      Home for the night



      1. To come down and settle, as after flight.
      2. To come by chance: alight on a happy solution.
      3. To dismount from a horse or vehicle.

      Word Origin & History

      Alight: “on fire,” early 15c., apparently from M.E. aliht , pp. of alihton (O.E. on-lihtan ) “to light up,” also “to shine upon” [Middle English alighten , from Old English ālīhtan : ā- , intensive pref. + līhtan , to relieve of a burden (from līht , light ; see light 2 ).] (orig. an animal mount) of weight.

      note… “to light up” also “to shine upon”. This was before the days of flashlights… jetmech

    • gbgoble Says:


    • Greg Goble Says:

      la la la JT is wrong again la la la thanks for the source code la la la

  49. jetmech Says:

    “Forbidden Planet”
    The Krell

  50. jetmech Says:

    And more to the point.

  51. GreenWin Says:

    The angry guy here argues so disingenuously as to betray his agenda. That appears to be full internalization of cognitive dissonance.

    • BruceFast Says:

      Welcome, GreenWin.

      I think you’ve got our jet mechanic figured out pretty well.

      • GreenWin Says:

        Bruce, thanks for the welcome. There is good information here, along with reasoned critical thinking, and poetry! I am greatly interested in alignment of the arts and sciences hemispheres. It is gratifying to find those here who are well on that path.

        Personally, evidence that A Rossi is playing entrepreneurial front man to a team of exceptional scientists, accumulates. If one considers the obstacles to a disruptive, entirely new form of nucleic energy – a quixotic, unpredictable playbook might be handy.

      • GreenWin Says:

        Errata: should be nucleonic…

      • BruceFast Says:

        “If one considers the obstacles to a disruptive, entirely new form of nucleic energy – a quixotic, unpredictable playbook might be handy.”

        My hope when starting this blog was to give a forum for the quixotic handbook to be written. LENR is going to be disruptive. I think the disruption will be far greater than most of my fellow bloggers think.

        As to the new world that LENR will produce, I am convinced that it’ll solve a whole lot of current problems, and produce a whole batch of new problems. That said, I can only guess at the new problems that will be produced. Having an infinite amount of virtually free energy will be interesting indeed.

      • GreenWin Says:

        Bruce, I suspect that abundance of nearly any material thing is opportunity for indulgence. A counter to that is to put abundance to work in service of those who most need it. Desalination, farming, manufacturing, transportation, construction etc. – there is demand for all these systems in the developing world. And the power grid in New Orleans (Superbowl blackout) looks to need a total rehab…

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “And the power grid in New Orleans (Superbowl blackout) looks to need a total rehab…”

        Quoth the Raven, “Never more,
        Darkness there, and nothing more.”

  52. Simon Derricutt Says:

    A while back here we had a calculation of the amount of energy we receive from the Sun relative to our total energy use. Basically, the total we use is so small as to make an unmeasurable difference to the temperature of the planet. Even if energy is cheap, we’re not going to use so much that it will make a problem.

    We’re pretty certain Rossi’s ecats exist – I don’t think there is any disagreement there. We don’t know whether they work as advertised – I think most of us are pretty certain they are not as good as Rossi says, but none of us know for sure.

    Bruce is right – knowing when you don’t know something is important in science. Thinking you know when you don’t is an easy trap to fall into. LENR in Pd-D was proved to be a nuclear reaction in 1993 by Miley, by correlating the heat and Helium production from both working and non-working cells. We don’t know how it works, but we know it does. We don’t yet know the ash from Ni-H, but it does seem a pretty good bet that the heat will be nuclear in some way. Hopefully we’ll get some good data from Celani.

    So Jetmech – I’m not going back to repeat more of what we’ve all been saying for the last year or so. Sure, Rossi may be a fraud, but his actions also match that of an entrepreneur who has a problem with reliability. We can’t tell the difference yet. Maybe the new third-party tests may tell us, but maybe not. I’m happy with saying I Don’t Know at the moment, but I sure wouldn’t invest in Rossi with the data that is public.

  53. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Many atheists deride religion, yet some of them are extreme zealots for their own DEAD-end religion. Their fanaticism belies their insecurity. After all, what’s the downside risk of them being wrong vs that of Christians?

  54. jetmech Says:

    Ok you have me fiigured out! I require PROOF and reason.
    I require you to study the ramifications of what you propose (free energy for everyone all the time IN almost limitless proportions)

    Yes Arthur C Clark may have been a proponent of cold fusion However he did make that quote about “free energy”
    (a trifling difference to you)

    You keep trying to say that Rossi has something to do with LENR.

    How can a non existant device (not sold not tested) be said to work
    by any means? Let alone LENR?

    How can you determine how a non existant device works?

    And then

    what’s the downside risk of them being wrong vs that of Christians?


    Belief in GOD is a personal thing

    How does that extend to a belief in a machine?
    Made by man?

    You can logically extend the belief in a deity to a belief in
    a machine? Sold for profit?




    (GOD LIKE)




    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, “Ok you have me fiigured out! I require PROOF and reason.”

      You don’t! You require no proof to declare that Rossi is full of it. You choose the negative hypothesis, and require no proof for it.

      J, “I require you to study the ramifications…”
      Who do you think you are to require that I/we anything.

  55. jetmech Says:


    a member of an ancient Jewish sect in Judea in the first century who fought to the death against the Romans and who killed or persecuted Jews who collaborated with the Romans.

    I really can say that “atheists” have no religion it is kinda of a
    definition of being an athiest!

    Like Missouri is the “show me” state!

    When i buy a used car i see if it runs!
    Does it burn oil?
    How many miles are on it?
    How good are the tires?

    Like that with any machine.

    What does a machine have to do with religion?
    the machine (car, snowmobile,golf cart) WORKS
    or it does not.
    Pretty simple!

    OK Rossi is promoting a machine (not a religion)
    that either works or does not work.
    He has provided no proof one way or the other.
    Rossi has given up (never tried) selling his machine.
    He now sells “shares”.

    Thus it is a scam!

    Selling shares is what makes it a scam!
    IT IS A SCAM! just like KEELY before him!

    I ask you to read this again and see all the parallels!

    Thank you!

    • brucefast Says:

      “I really can say that “atheists” have no religion it is kinda of a
      definition of being an athiest!” (1) “a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe…”

      Athiests hold a common set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. Its a religous belief system.

  56. jetmech Says:

    Slow down bruce!


    just sit back and take pot shots like you always do.

    I ASK you to look at the ramifications!

    If you will not then do not yell at me!

  57. jetmech Says:

    I gotta admit Bruce I can not prove Santa Klause or the tooth fairy

    A machine that does not exist?

    Rossi is selling SHARES

    NOT machines!

  58. jetmech Says:

    Bruce I am sorry I did not make that clear enough for you.
    I said “require” I assumed you would know what that means.
    I change that to “ask” not “require”.
    Again I am sorry.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, I want you to know that I have erase about 6 of your posts without reading them, include this one that I am responding to. (:->) Have a great day.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, I edited out some of your nicknames. You will not use nicknames on this site unless the named one approves. If your nicknames carry the tone of insult or put down, you should assume that the named one doesn’t approve.

      This, Jetmech, is a banning offence.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      I regard this forum much as a friend’s barbeque party, but without the food. Be polite to people and respect the host, and try to have interesting conversations that benefit people. Being rude just gets you chucked in the pool or ejected from the back gate.

      Respectful disagreement is fine – one of us may have more data on a particular thing and thus we might end up changing our views (though that would be fairly rare). My views on AGW got changed by just such a demonstration of good data over at Chiefio’s blog.

      Craig and Jetmech have a point about Rossi being somewhat less than truthful, and we all accept that. The jury is still out as to whether he’s totally fraudulent, though, but while it’s not my money he’s burning it doesn’t really affect me so it’s nothing to get angry about or shout at people until they accept my viewpoint.

      If Jetmech is right about the parallels with Keely, then Rossi will continue to have followers who believe his devices worked even if it’s proved to be fraud, and even after Rossi is dead and buried – it will become one of those suppressed technologies that the MiB won’t let us have.

      Meantime there are quite a few clues that Rossi has had his machines working at times, and that he might actually have been trying to gain time until he’d sorted the problems. There’s just not enough hard believable data one way or the other at the moment.

      So lighten up, have some more punch and forget about Rossi until he’s produced proof one way or another. That may be a while, so discuss the other people working with Nickel and Hydrogen instead. If it gets too slow we can always discuss train-whistles or something else….

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Anywhere else I post that url, you can listen to a great train whistle.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        I thought it might have been that, but found instead a whole load of train sound-effects. Thanks for posting that Iggy – back to our roots. I grew up in a railway town (my dad and other family worked on the railway), and worked on the railway in vacations from college.When I was 9 the local steam-train track was shut, leaving the main line only (mainly stinky Diesels by then).

        Wouldn’t it be nicer to have LENR-driven trains (belated attempt to pretend this was on-topic)?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        When I was about 5 or 6, my dad waved down the train and they let me ride in the steam locomotive about 2 blocks. Below is photo of old 444. The railroad is now out of business.

      • brucefast Says:

        Simon, “(belated attempt to pretend this was on-topic)”
        I’m laughing out loud, honest!

        I am sure, however, that one of these days there’ll be news flying around on this topic all over the place. It’ll be easy to stay on topic then.

      • gbgoblereg Goble Says:

        As LENR reaches 1200 degrees C (here kitty kitty kitty), we begin to expand the possibles of utilization. “Steam is King” was the motto of the early industrial age. I adore old trains, yet this modern, closed cycle steam engine really makes me purr.

        I’m prepared to drop one in my RV… an old 1970’s 3- window school bus. Ready to race?

        Motor Authority
        “Cyclone Steam Engine Pushes Closer To Land Speed Record” Feb 3, 2010 By Nelson Ireson
        “Steam engines. For most of us, they conjure images of horseless buggies, paddle ships and classic locomotives, but soon they may be setting new speed records and hitting new benchmarks for efficiency–potentially in passenger cars.

        Cyclone Power Technologies today announced it has completed and shipped a full scale model of the engine being built for the U.S. Land Steam Record Team. At 180 horsepower and peak torque of 850 pound-feet–at 1 rpm–the engine promises to deliver a steam-powered speed record with a marriage of old and new technology.”

        Also this from Cyclone Power…

        “Cyclone Power Technologies Completes Third Milestone
        under U.S. Army Development Program”

        “POMPANO BEACH, FL, Jan. 30, 2013. Cyclone Power Technologies Inc. (OTCQB: CYPW), developer of the all-fuel, clean-tech Cyclone Engine, announced today that it has successfully completed the third of five major milestones under its engine development contract with the U.S. Army / Tank Command (TACOM). With this accomplishment, Cyclone has submitted and TACOM has approved for payment an invoice for approximately $250,000.

        The Army / TACOM contract is valued at approximately $1.4 million, of which $750,000 has been received to date by Cyclone. The program objective is to develop a Phase I prototype of a highly compact, lightweight 10kW power generator, driven by Cyclone’s power-dense, external combustion engine. The final product is expected to be compatible for use with multiple lines of combat vehicles
        either as a built-in auxiliary or dismountable and portable power unit. Cyclone anticipates completing this Phase I contract by July 2013, which may be followed by Phase II follow-on development and funding later this year.”

  59. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    jetmech :

    a code word for DELETE

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig Binns was (or is) invariable polite, and his presentation of his idea crystal clear, even if he refused to look at the data. jetmuch is not polite; he is in fact angry and a tad malicious. He is refuses to look at the data. But what is even stranger, his presentation of his ideas are very difficult to follow.

  60. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    It’s interesting that ROSSI SAYS, that the 3rd parties, are non-Italian universities, and they are paying their own way in testing the ecat. This, if true, would indicate serious academic interest in LENR. And for Rossi to turn over his reactor to independent scientific testing, it would indicate he has considerable confidence in the device.

    “The third party indipendent validation tests have been funded directly by the scientists and some of the Universities ( not Italian) which are making the tests. All the expenses for instrumentation, men hours, hotel, restaurants, taxi etc have been paid indipendently by the Entities who are making the indipendent validation.”

    As I interpret Rossi’s post, he may be paying an Italian university for its testing.

  61. Greg Goble Says:

    The Tysonian Gospel


  62. jetmech Says:

    Iggy the train whistles are going off into the distance – OFF-
    they are receding in amplititude and frequency!
    The train is becoming much harder to hear as it is moving away!
    Soon the sound will be so far away as to be imperceptible!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      The question in my mind is, “Is Rossi just going to continue with his hot air and become more and more irrelevant, or is he going to surprise us somewhere down the road with something real?”

    • Roger Bird Says:

      To tell the truth, if LENR wasn’t confirmed, I would have probably forgotten all about Rossi long ago. Hot air goes just so far with people who aren’t completely asleep. Is being forgotten Rossi’s fate, or is he going to surprise us eventually.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I wish to point out that jetmech is trying to make Rossi’s failure to deliver some kind of failure on the part of Bruce or Iggy or other’s on this forum so that jetmech can feel superior. It won’t work, jetmech. Bruce, Iggy, myself, and others have already said that they are neutral with regard to whether Rossi is going to produce or not. They have also said that Rossi is irrelevant, and thankfully Bruce called this site nickelpower, not ecatpower or rossipower.

      jetmech, you don’t have to put others down to feel inner substance. In fact, you will never feel inner substance as long as you are putting other people down.

  63. jetmech Says:

    The sound of the train will become very faint.
    Soon there will be NO sound and the the train will pass.
    You will cry “ROSSI” and no sound will echo back!
    Again you will cry “Rossi” and no sound will echo back!

  64. jetmech Says:

    If i thought The “Rossi Ecat” had a .1% chance of working i would support it!
    I do not!
    To see who I am

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      So, is that you, Steve Jones? I don’t claim any scientific expertise, virtually no science education, but I have, on more than one occasion, observed the Tesla coil at the Mid-America Science Museum. I lived about 4 miles from the museum. It seemed to be quite large.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Jetmech – your style of writing is so much different than the Steve Jones that we know (currently trying out the double-cup resonant heater). He is polite and erudite, and willing to test the evidence even on things that look to be crazy. No point in claiming to be him. Maybe a different Steve Jones… it’s a fairly common name, after all.

  65. jetmech Says:

    The “double-cup” “resonant heater” WOW it is “resonant”
    I tried “googling” that with no real result!

    Yes I am willing to test the evidence on things that look crazy!
    Do I not look crazy enough for you?

    So what does that mean in relation to a machine (the Rossi Ecat)
    that has never been sold or tested?

    And NO I am not claiming to be somebody that only
    a handful of people (I am not one of them) knows exists!

    If you mean “erudite” AS having or showing knowledge that is gained by studying : possessing or displaying erudition.

    I can not answer as that is up to you!

    Yes there are a lot of people called “Steven Jones”!

    Very good surmise!

    So what?

    And what does that have to do with the Rossi Ecat?

  66. jetmech Says:

    Just because i like explosions and things that give
    off big sparks and sound scary does not make me a bad person!

  67. jetmech Says:

    My video is just what it says “different top loads for a tesla coil”
    I has NOTHING to do with Steven Jones “double cup resonant heater whatever”

  68. jetmech Says:

    “I really can say that “atheists” have no religion it is kinda of a
    definition of being an athiest!” (1) “a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe…”

    Athiests hold a common set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. Its a religous belief system.

    No That is utter Bull Shit!

    AN Atheist by definition is an “Atheist” Atheists hold NO common set of “beliefs” as AN ATHEIST is an ATHEIST!



    • brucefast Says:

      You seem to have the atheist and the agnostic confused. The agnostic says that he does not know. The atheist declares that he knows something — that there is no god, gods, supernatural. The agnostic doesn’t believe in anything, the atheist believes in — nothing.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Does that include justice, love, kindness, sweetness, joy, purpose, consciousness?

  69. jetmech Says:

    So far None of the people posting on this forum have come to
    defend the “Rossi Ecat” they have attacked me in me in one way
    or another.
    That is all they have done!
    What is your defense of the Rossi Ecat?
    I like explosions and big scary sparks!

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Jetmech – why would we jump to the defence of Rossi? If it does in fact work, then he’ll sell it at some point. If not, then someone else will do so. There are encouraging noises from Defkalion, Brillouin are still chugging away, and there are various experiments going on with Celani’s wire.

      If you’re looking for an argument as to how believable Rossi is, or someone here getting enthusiastic about him and showing their credulity, you’re on the wrong blog. Here, we look at the evidence and say it’s not conclusive one way or the other. If you are strongly one way or the other then you haven’t understood the subject.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, you don’t seem to know how to read. You have sought someone to fight you re: Rossi. However, most of us are agnostic about Rossi. Why would we stand up and defend Rossi if we are not convinced that Rossi has the goods.

      Most of us here, however, are not agnostic about LENR. And, as you don’t seem to be able to grasp, if LENR is proved without Rossi, then Rossi is is not claiming some new science, he is only claiming that he has harnessed that new science. Even that, however, isn’t that great of claim any more because Jet Power, Dr. Miley, Defkalion, Piantelli and others all claim to have harnessed this new science.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      We have no defense of Rossi accept patience and understanding that these things can take time (or not) and that it is very cruel and rude to call someone a crook without proof.

  70. jetmech Says:

    How can you ever “prove” that someone is a crook until they do something that can be prosecuted as “crooked”?

    You name anyone in the “free energy” field that has actually been

    All I have ever said is Rossi looks like a crook, talks like a crook, acts like a crook!

    That is all! Can I PROVE he is a crook?

    How could ANYONE do that?
    You tell me HOW and we (WE) will do that!

    Am I rude?
    I do not want to be so!

    I have stated how “free energy” may NOT be such a good thing!
    I have stated that “Rossi” may NOT have a “free energy” device after all!


    What does an unproven device have to do with LENR?
    What does Andrea Rossi’s UNPROVEN UNKNOWN ECAT
    have to do with LENR?

    I will state it AGAIN

    What does an unknown, unproven device (Rossi Ecat) have to do
    with LENR?
    Or anything? Any scientific field any discipline of thought, anything!
    What does an unproven, unknown device contribute to anything?

  71. jetmech Says:

    Simon Derricutt

    Encouraging noises? “Requests for more investors”?

    I grasp! Do you grasp?
    What does the Rossi Ecat have to do with LENR?
    This “New Science” What “New Science”?
    To have “New Science” you have to actually have “New Science”!
    But you know that? (right)????


    I have sought someone to fight?
    I do not know how to read?
    Have you lost sight of Rossi and his ecat?
    Are you just wandering in the desert for a new sign?

  72. jetmech Says:

    I am sorry if i have been rude.
    However us atheists are pretty rigorous about providing
    We are proof oriented Athiests!
    Either something works or it does not!
    Pretty simple. Something either works or it does not!
    No middle ground.
    No fudging the numbers.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Just because something has not been proven does not mean that it does not exist. Scientific proof is not the only way to know something. I know from personal experience that a high carb diet is deadly for me. Has it been proven? I don’t know. Do I care? No. I know it to be true for me. This is merely an example that scientific proof does not have a monopoly on truth or reality.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Jetmech – I think you’re missing the point that we can’t prove Rossi one way or the other. Give me absolute proof (not inferences) that he’s not had an E-cat working. I can’ t see any. As such I’ll wait until such proof arrives.

      In science some things can be shown to work but still need the technology development to make the things manufacturable to sufficient reliability. If you haven’t reached that point, is it working or not?

      The universe doesn’t really work if you only have yes/no, black/white or 1/0 binary answers. There’s also shades of maybe, as well as Mu (there is no answer – un-ask the question).

  73. jetmech Says:

    Yeah “Scientific Proof” Is NOT the ONLY WAY To prove something!
    But you said “know something” And youre diet!
    That is NOT at all what I am saying!
    The Rossi Ecat is totally unproven “scientific” or otherwise.
    For all practical purposes it does not exist!
    Simon D

    What are you talking about?
    You can not prove What Rossi is claiming one way or the other?

    I think you forget that “Rossi” is claiming something (cop of 6 whatever)

    Rossi has failed to prove what Rossi says!

    In Black and White yes/no or 1/0 binary answers. And yes there is
    no shades of “maybe” either the Rossi Ecat works or it does not!

    This has always been my point! Rossi has utterly failed to prove his
    device works as Rossi advertises it to work!

    Thank you for clarifying it for me!

    So there you have it! It is Feb 23 2013. And NO proof whatsover
    has EVER been given that the Rossi Ecat works as described by Rossi!

    So what really are you guys talking about?
    I don’t understand the idea of “absolute proof that Santa Claus” does not exist!

    Give me “Absolute Proof” that the Rossi Ecat exists!

    And give me a timeline of how many years/decades/millenium
    you are willing to wait for Rossi (Santa)!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, you really are tiresome. And argumentative.

      You are the only one here who is pathologically uncomfortable with uncertainty and patience.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      There are such people as hoarders. There is anorexia nervosa type people. These people will talk to you in the most reasonable way, yet their behavior proves that they are completely whacked out. Patho-skeptics are like this, and jetmech is even the worst among patho-skeptics. He is positively rude and obnoxious about it.

      Patho-skeptics are the flip side of true believers.

  74. jetmech Says:

    You have me! There is NO way to prove a negative!
    ALL I have been asking you guys is to prove a POSITIVE!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      We are not in a position to prove a positive or a negative. We are only in a position to be patient, or to freak out, which is what you are doing, jetmech.

  75. jetmech Says:

    here is my point’t

  76. jetmech Says:

    Go to another universe! I You do not like how things work in our universe!
    Go to a universe where the Rossi Ecat works!’t

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Much, much better than the E-Cat working is patience. It will cause far more people to be happy than a working E-cat would. Why don’t you try it, jetmech. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, including your mental health.

  77. jetmech Says:

    And I am through “faking it” also the universe works as the
    universe works! There is no such thing as “free energy”.
    There NEVER will be!
    AND if if (imagination) there was such a thing.

    How could it be good for our planet?

    How could limitless “free energy” be a good thing?

    IT is just like that!

  78. jetmech Says:

  79. jetmech Says:

    Why you do understand physics!

  80. jetmech Says:

    or the Rossi Ecat failure!

  81. jetmech Says:


  82. jetmech Says:

    Patience is a virtue! So you Mr Bird must be VERY VERY virtuous!

    How long must we wait?

    I would guess that this is our ONLY difference!

    My time of waiting for the Rossi Ecat is up!

    It has been too long.

    You sir have not stated HOW long you would be willing to wait!

    I have waited long enough.

    How long are you willing to wait?

    AS I have questioned before

    1 more year?
    2 more years?
    5 more years?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, you are not required to wait any period of time. And practicing patience in all arenas of life is an excellent way to insure your happiness. Getting all pushed out of shape over Rossi or anything else causes you to be unhappy. But if you want to be miserable, be my guest.

      Since I actually am patient, and not just going through the motions of patience, I could wait forever. I may lose interest in Rossi at some point. But really, he isn’t hurting me any whether he is a crook, insane, or the greatest and most productive genius who ever lived.

      The recent disclosure of the Focardi letter has caused me to be interested in Rossi some more. We will see what we will see.

  83. jetmech Says:

    Make an honest statement.
    If you are indeed an “honest person”!

  84. jetmech Says:

    Are you Mr Bird an honest person?

  85. jetmech Says:

    Are you willing to answer an honest question with an honest answer?

    “We are not in a position to prove a positive or a negative. We are only in a position to be patient, or to freak out, which is what you are doing, jetmech.”

    Roger Bird.

    That is an “honest” answer?

    I think not.

    Who is “we”?

    If you are only one person?

  86. jetmech Says:

    Ok you have agreed with me our only difference is how long
    each one of us is willing to wait!
    You Mr Bird are willing to wait essentially FOREVER!
    Whatever that means in terms of Human Longevity!
    LOL to the squared power of infinity!
    Recently disclosed letter of Focardi! WOW
    You gotta be kiddin me right?
    Come on Mr Bird.
    You agree with me.
    It won’t hurt you!
    I am no scientist. (but i like big sparks and tried to make thermite! need to heat iron rust!)
    Come on.
    The Rossi Ecat is more than likely a scam.
    You know it and I know it.
    Just admit it and be done!
    Admit it!
    Be honest. Be true to oneself!
    Quit trying to “win” an argument!
    I love you man!
    All of us atheists say that!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Well, jetmech, at least you are becoming entertaining. I agree only that Rossi has become quite tiresome with all of his hot air. Believe it or not, and I know that this will come as a surprise to you, he is even more tiresome with his hot air than you are with your impatience and trying to foist your viewpoint onto the rest of us.

      Later. I gotta go hang laundry.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, I don’t think that you are being honest with yourself. If you truly weren’t willing to wait, you wouldn’t waste perfectly good time on this website. Though you are feeding criticism, you still are hanging around. Those who are not waiting are not hanging around.

  87. jetmech Says:

    Be true to oneself!
    Admit to dishonesty.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I am very, very rarely dishonest. I can count on one hand the number of times that I have been dishonest in the past 44 years. I was honest before I started the spiritual path 44 years ago, when I was an insensitive jerk. Now, I do it deliberately. But honesty is no excuse for hurting people’s feelings. (:->)

    • Roger Bird Says:

      To be absolutely, positively honest about Rossi: I am absolutely, positively unsure. And I am absolutely, positively not going to call someone a crook unless I am sure.

  88. jetmech Says:

    Some “Atheists” say “love you man”!

    I just say LOL!

  89. Greg Goble Says:

    This is a bit from 2000…

    F. Scaramuzzi1 Accountability in Research, 2000. 8: p. 77.
    ENEA – Dipartimento Energia , Divisione Fusione, Centro Ricerche Energia C.P. 65 – 00044 Frascati, Rome, Italy

    “Let me start with the effort to attain reproducibility. I want to mention here the work of Giuliano Mengoli, in Padua, in which excess heat measurements in electrolytic cells have been performed in different configurations, while working at temperatures close to the boiling point of water. The results are quite reproducible. (Experiments at ‘high’ temperatures had already been performed by Fleischmann and Pons, who showed also an interesting feature, called “heat after death”, i.e., the persistence of heat production after all the electrolyte was evaporated.)

    Another interesting method worth mentioning is the one followed in the experiments performed by Giuliano Preparata et al. The idea is that the presence of an electric potential in the palladium cathode can influence its chemical potential, with the effect of allowing higher D/Pd ratios: in this way, excess heat is more easily obtained, without worrying too much about the ‘material science’ characteristics of the metal (the idea arises out of Preparata’s theory cited above). In order to have high enough potentials, the cathode is a long thin Pd-wire, with a voltage applied at its ends: the results are quite reproducible. The route chosen by Francesco Celani, consisting of coating the cathode with appropriate materials in order to prevent the deuterium from escaping is also quite promising.

    There are a number of experiments that seem to show that it is possible to have excess heat production in a different experimental system: nickel and hydrogen rather than palladium and deuterium. In this case the only reasonable explanation for nuclear fusion reactions is the fusion of hydrogen with one of the few deuterons that are always present in hydrogen as impurities. This idea is reminiscent of the work of Julian Schwinger, who examined the possibility of such a reaction as a general explanation of CF. Excess heat has been detected in light water electrolysis experiments, in electrolysis in so-called ‘Patterson cells’, in which the cathode is constituted by thousands of small plastic spheres coated with layers of palladium and nickel all packed together, and in gas loading experiments.”

    I hope you enjoy reading the ten year accounting… these things do take time. Now, twelve years later the role of the nano physics and atomic excitation through harmonics within the lattice is understood. Zeolites are of interest because they naturally oscilate. The zeolite palladium nickel gas loaded cell requires no input of energy to initiate the ‘cold fusion’ LENR reaction.

    There is this accounting from Iraj…

    “Iraj Parchamazad: LENR with Zeolites”
    September 30, 2012 / by Ruby Carat

    …and this from acadamia.

    Quantum Engineering Laboratory
    University of Colorado at Boulder

    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions

    Sorting out possible anomalous heating mechanism of deuterium in palladium

    Lab Publications
    o “Mechanism of heat generation from loading gaseous hydrogen isotopes into palladium nanoparticles,” Olga Dmitriyeva, PhD Thesis, University of Colorado, 2012. PDF
    o “Origin of excess heat generated during loading Pd-impregnated alumina powder with deuterium and hydrogen,” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, and G. Moddel, Thermochimica Acta, 543, 260–266 (2012). PDF
    o “Control of excess heat production in Pd-impregnated alumina powder,” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, and G. Moddel, 10th International Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen Loaded Metals, Siena, Italy, April 10-14, 2012.
    o “Effect of temperature gradient on calorimetric measurements during gas-loading experiments,” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, and G. Moddel, 10th International Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen Loaded Metals, Siena, Italy, April 10-14, 2012. Abstract & slides
    o “Mechanism for heat generation during deuterium and hydrogen loading of palladium nanostructures,” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, G. Moddel, J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 8, 29–36 (2012). PDF
    o “Mechanisms for heat generated during deuterium loading of alumina-based PD nanoparticle material,” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, G. Moddel, 241st American Chemical Society National Meeting & Exposition, March 27-31, Anaheim, CA, 2011. slides
    o “Deuterium & hydrogen loading into nano-Pd on zeolite and alumina matrices at low pressures, ” O. Dmitriyeva, R. Cantwell, M. McConnell, G. Moddel, 9th Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen/Deuterium Gas Loaded Metals, Sept 17-19, Siena, Italy, 2010; Voted best paper of the conference.



    Imagine as you will…

    Everyone is an instrument in a symphony
    Each playing notes

    Some melodious
    others discordant
    Each ringing true

    At first and then less often…

    The harmonies
    are elusive

    Yet strongly sustained
    Leaving us curious

    When it is heard the composition is magnificent

    Through keen observation over time
    Improvements are seen

    In the instrumentalists and their orchestration

    This certainly heartens

    Good participation
    and virtuosity

    As it has in our friend
    Martin Fleischmann
    Thanks for everything


    –gbgoble2012 In Honor of Martin Fleischmann

  90. jetmech Says:

    I only looked into this Rossi Ecat thing because a coworker asked me to.
    Initially i was impressed. However as time went by _
    A. I was convinced the Rossi Ecat did not work as advertised.
    B. That the Rossi Ecat Could NOT work as advertised.
    C. The whole thing is a simple scam made up with complex demos!
    However I began to post to various forums to discern WHY people
    Simon Derricut
    Roger Bird
    Greg Goble
    Would continue to defend Rossi.
    And as I surmise most of you DO NOT.
    You defend LENR as a whole NOT Rossi specifically
    However all of you inextricably link Rossi to LENR.
    Mr Roger Bird – does it matter whether the Rossi Ecat is a
    scam or simply does not work?
    Actually the whole thing that made me think about people and
    their beliefs was STEORN.
    I dismissed STEORN as having absolute zero chance
    of success and gave it no thought as I believed it was only
    a publicity stunt.
    Permanent Magnet Motors?
    You gotta be kiddin me!!!!
    If a person could be persuaded that a “permanent magnet motor”
    could actually work as a “free” (or otherwise) energy source
    what else could they be persuaded to believe?
    And as such I am troubled by the outcome.
    It as if you are arguing just to argue.
    And Honesty is just thrown away!
    Why can you not just be honest?
    What force is preventing you?
    You are engaging in pointless arguments just
    to win as people in video games join them just to shoot
    other players.
    It is the same thing!
    You are evil.
    Being dishonest is being evil.

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, “That the Rossi Ecat Could NOT work as advertised.”
      Why so?

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Mr Jetmech… so sad. Let me assist you with this… Rossi does not have an ECat, the ECat is not an LENR device, the ECat is a scam.
      I feel so much better now…

      I’m realizing other interests keep me free from ECat worries.

      I’m enjoying reading the Golden Bough, by Sir James George Frazer. Happily awaiting the next “big” news. In the moments between I’ve realized three things:

      I enjoy playing Cold Fusion Games… funny I’ve never been into computer games before.
      Another cold fusion patent has appeared. Inventors: Dan Steinberg (Blacksburg, VA, US) IPC8 Class: AH05H600FI USPC Class: 376151 Class name: Induced nuclear reactions: processes, systems, and elements of nuclear fusion, fusion targets. or pellets. Publication date: 2013-02-21 Patent application number: 20130044847 Read more: Abstract: Provided are a method and apparatus for low energy nuclear reactions in hydrogen-loaded metals. A nickel cathode is disposed inside a pressure vessel loaded with heavy water. The vessel is heated to a temperature at which nickel oxide is reduced in the presence of hydrogen. The cathode is electrified, thereby producing hydrogen at the cathode, which removes any oxide layer on the nickel. The nickel can therefore more easily be loaded with hydrogen. The nickel cathode preferably has embedded particles of neutron-absorbing and/or hydrogen absorbing materials, such as boron-10, lithium-containing compounds, palladium, niobium, vanadium, or other hydrogen storage intermetallic compounds, alloys, or amorphous alloys.

      I’m curious as to what lab was financed by Bob Guccione… have they succeded? Are the astronauts who hung with them now working for Deep Space Industries, Planetary Resources, or Space X? Are they still in the ‘race to cold fusion?

      “RIP Bob Guccione, the leather-pants-clad seminary dropout (did you know that?) who founded Penthouse magazine. T. Rees Shapiro delivers the finest obituary of a smut pioneer you will read this year (knock on wood, Hef). He wasn’t just about dirty, dirty pictures: He also collected art and poured $17 million into cold fusion”… From the article “The Twilight of Bob Guccione” pgs. 4 and 5.

      When Guccione held a twenty-first birthday party for his daughter Nina in 1979, he had his bodyguards eject from the House a local radio personality who had been hired as a DJ. He had gone swimming naked in Guccione’s pool.

      Meanwhile, Guccione himself kept a shy, awkward distance from his visitors. At dinner parties, he often sequestered himself for hours at a time in the kitchen cooking pasta sauces for his guests, who included such luminaries as Andy Warhol, Arthur C. Clarke and various Apollo astronauts. When Guccione did put in an appearance, he habitually confined himself to a corner where he would huddle with a favored intimate before making an early dash for his bedroom upstairs.

      To those close to Guccione, such crazy dreams spoke less to his
      grandiloquent ego than to an unlikely gullibility that was a major
      facet of his personality and which left him prey to all manner of
      hustlers and grifters who managed to talk their way past the security gates and attack dogs. “He simply believes what people tell him,” his former business adviser says. “You say, ‘Bob, I can get green cheese from the moon, and I think it would sell here.’ He’ll say, ‘You think so? I can do a marketing plan!'”

      Hence, in the early 1980s, Guccione decided to single-handedly fund research into creating the world’s first (cold fusion) nuclear-fusion reactor, a power source that would, if successful, solve the world’s then-pressing energy crisis, rid the planet of pollution-causing fossil fuels and, perhaps not incidentally, make Guccione the richest man in history. He set up nuclear physicist Robert Brussard and eighty-two other experts from around the world in a research lab in San Diego, all paid for by profits from Penthouse. His former business adviser remembers nervously trying to talk Guccione out of the project. Guccione wouldn’t budge. To this day, Guccione remains unapologetic about the $20 million he squandered on the doomed project. “It’s a wonderful feeling to be a pioneer,” he says, “and had that been successful, we would have solved all the energy problems of the earth.”

      ANYWAYS… deep sigh. Many new cold fusion blogs, sites, facebook pages and what not are appearing. I feel the bubbling of insight in science and the movement of new knowledge. Brains are workin’ overtime on it… finally. An exponentially growing light of understanding… it’s so bright I gotta wear shades.

      Till Later, peace love and granola

      Hope you enjoy the games.

      Who is that Dan Seinberg guy with the new cold fusion patent?

  91. jetmech Says:

  92. jetmech Says:

    How good is unlimited “free energy”?
    Again i ask you!
    What good would it be?

    • Roger Bird Says:


      First, the population of the world will plateau out at about 10 billion.  Check out and set at least one axis to the number of children per woman.  Then click the time button.  Notice that the number of children per woman is going down towards 2 very rapidly.  Prosperity and education are the best birth control methods

      With LENR, people won’t be so inclined to live on the coast.  I noticed this when I visited Philippines.  Everyone is on the coast and very few people live in the interior.  This exaggerates population density.  Egypt is a good example, with virtually everyone next to the Nile.

      LENR is not free energy.  It still requires the cost of people setting up it up.  It costs space.  It costs maintenance.  Also, there is just so much energy that people will want.  I have a 47 inch TV.  I don’t have room for anything bigger.  I don’t need anything bigger.  I don’t want to be bothered installing anything bigger.

      So, I am not worried about “free” energy and population growth.  Basically, I am not worried.


        “If we understand and feel that the greatest act of devotion and worship to God is not to hurt or harm any of His beings, we are loving God.”

        — Meher Baba —


  93. jetmech Says:

    So an unlimited supply of “free energy” and an unlimited supply
    of human beings using an unlimited supply of “free energy’
    And you say you are being honest?

    • brucefast Says:

      Oh, mon ami, mai no!
      Free energy will solve a whole bunch of real problems. Free energy will introduce a whole bunch of new real problems. What those real problems will be — now that is a question.

      Part of what this website is about is an attempt to souse out what that future will look like, good and bad. However, this soothsaying is fortune telling at best. However, I still hope it to be beneficial.

  94. jetmech Says:

    No my initial and final assessment of The Rossi Ecat stands.
    It is a scam like STEORN was a scam just more ambitious!

    Free Energy used by (ten billion people you say) would be benificial?

    Now to Rossi!
    Where is the tested and proven and sold Ecat?
    No where MAN!

    He’s a real nowhere Man,
    Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
    Making all his nowhere plans
    For nobody.
    Doesn’t have a point of view,
    Knows not where he’s going to,
    Isn’t he a bit like you and me?
    Nowhere Man, please listen,
    You don’t know what you’re missing,
    Nowhere Man, the world is at your command.
    He’s as blind as he can be,
    Just sees what he wants to see,
    Nowhere Man can you see me at all?
    Doesn’t have a point of view,
    Knows not where he’s going to,
    Isn’t he a bit like you and me?
    Nowhere Man, don’t worry,
    Take your time, don’t hurry,
    Leave it all ’till somebody else
    Lends you a hand.
    He’s a real Nowhere Man,
    Sitting in his Nowhere Land,
    Making all his nowhere plans
    For nobody.

    Unless you got a better explanation of the “Rossi Ecat”!
    THE Rossi Ecat
    The MEG
    Blacklight Power
    Stanley Meyer
    Johnson Motor
    Bedini Motor
    Josef Papp

    ALL the same just different DEMOS!
    Just looking for investors!

    There is just so much “free energy” out there!
    However it is such a big problem actually getting it!

    OK you guys are being honest?



    ANY of you got any free energy?

    OK just around the corner?

    LOL LOL LOL! The word “DUMB ASS”: just entered my mind!

    LOL, LOL,LOL I am laughing so hard!
    Yeah YOU are being honest?

    How so?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech wrote: “No my initial and final assessment of The Rossi Ecat stands.” That is not very scientific. What happens when new data appears. Like, what will your assessment be if and when we can buy one at Home Depot?

  95. jetmech Says:

    Come on!

  96. jetmech Says:

    Come on guys!
    You want to laugh!

  97. jetmech Says:

    “If we understand and feel that the greatest act of devotion and worship to God is not to hurt or harm any of His beings, we are loving God.”

    WOW what does that mean?
    Is that a BUZZ KILL or what?

    What does that mean in the context of a “free energy device”?

    Or a person who only hopes to prey on you and gain investors?
    To actually USE you?
    AND gain investors?

    Are you not then aiding EVIL?

  98. Craig Binns Says:

    Hey you guys. I take it from all this that Rossi hasn’t produced anything substantive as yet. Mmm, predicted that. Never mind; keep the faith!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig, try not to be a complete idiot like jetmech. Most of us here, including me, have what is called an open mind about Rossi, Bigfoot, UFOs and other unanswered questions. We are not true believers. You and jetmech are true disbelievers.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Hi Craig – I’m not watching Rossi at all. I figure that if he does finally come out with something saleable then someone will alert me to it. The other LENR players are a lot more interesting, but there’s not a lot happening in the news at the moment.

      I don’t know whether Rossi has been fooling himself or is simply trying to fool everyone else. It could still happen that the new “third party” test (due in around a month, but that will probably stretch a bit) may show something useful.

      Even if the test shows a good result, there’s still a question-mark over whether Rossi could mass-produce the fuel and expect it to work each time. Personally I suspect this unreliability is likely to be the reason Rossi continues to not deliver on his promises, but there’s no real evidence one way or the other. That’s just a hunch based on knowledge of start-ups.

      I don’t know when or even if Rossi will prove you wrong. There’s a good chance that we’ll have some sort of LENR running in the next few years, though. People like Ed Storms are working hard on finding out why it happens, and when that is known then the experiments will be better-directed with more chance of working reliably.

  99. brucefast Says:

    Jetmech, you didn’t answer my question posted above. I reiterate:

    Jetmech, “That the Rossi Ecat Could NOT work as advertised.”
    Why so?

  100. Craig Binns Says:


    That’s not how reason works. I will continue not to believe in Bigfoot etc until someone produces good evidence for the existence of these things. The burden of proof – not even “proof”, just reasonable evidence – falls on the person making the claim, not the person denying it. Like in a court of law, where it rightly falls on the prosecution, not the defence. So Rossi and the Bigfooters have nothing until they show they have something. And Rossi has had ample time and opportunity to do that. He hasn’t because he can’t.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      There is plenty of evidence of the existence of Bigfoot. Unfortunately, it is not reproducible evidence. I say that you are wrong, reason works this way: If you can’t prove that something exists, and you can’t prove that it doesn’t exist, then it is an open or unanswered question.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Lighten up, Craig.

  101. jetmech Says:

    OK I can not prove Santa Clause (or the sanity clause!)
    or the Tooth Fairy!
    Or even Jesus
    Or even Thor! (he has a weekday named “THURSDAY”)
    What about Buddha?
    Let alone something as insignificant as “Bigfoot”!
    Unfortunately “Big Foot” has NO reproducible evidence?
    What you say?
    Then of course “Big Foot” MUST be real?
    Simply because it has no “Reproducible Evidence”?
    The 3 headed space alien sitting next to me is laughing
    and farting really bad stinky ones!

    “Unfortunately, it is not reproducible evidence.”

    “reason works this way: If you can’t prove that something exists, and you can’t prove that it doesn’t exist, then it is an open or unanswered question.”

    Thats really funny right there!! That is one really huge LOL also!

    Come on I can’t stop laughing!

    Too funny!
    Really I am laughing hard tnx Roger Bird and Iggy!!!!!
    I get you guys now!
    Rossi is a joke just like Bigfoot is a joke!
    TNX fer the laugh!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Why must I constantly correct jetmech’s failure to understand what I said when what I said is as clear as crystal. I said that Bigfoot is an open question. It has neither been proven nor disproven.

  102. jetmech Says:

    That was REALLY funny!
    I thought you guys were serious for months!

  103. jetmech Says:

    still laughing TNX!

  104. brucefast Says:

    Jetmech, you didn’t answer my question posted twice above. I reiterate again:

    Jetmech, “That the Rossi Ecat Could NOT work as advertised.”
    Why so?

  105. Craig Binns Says:


    You really have to ask yourself why there is no “reproducible evidence” of the existence of a viable population of huge ape like creatures in N America. The vastly most probable reason is that there are no such creatures. There’s plenty of evidence for bears, for example. That’s because they DO exist.

    There is no evidence of Rossi’s hundreds of e-cats, and sales of megawatt range devices, and factories in Florida or Sweden or Italy. That is because, Roger, these things don’t exist, and never have. It is a question of probability, and the probability that Rossi is a simple swindler is absolutely overwhelming. And if he is not, let him show that he is not, for the burden of proof is on him.

    Roger, next time you’re in New York, and someone offers to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge, you mustn’t think, “well I don’t have reproducible evidence to disprove that this guy owns the bridge, so it’s an open question”. It’s not an open question. It’s a scam.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – the likelihood that a lot of what “Rossi says” is not true is so high as to be almost certain. No contest on that. You can also say the same about a lot of our politicians, and the parallel is obvious. Whether it’s intended as a scam/swindle or whether he really thinks he’s almost there, on the other hand, is not at all clear. Rossi’s actions also match that of an inventor who’s almost there but not quite.

      Let’s just accept the philosophical point that although we can prove something exists we can’t prove it doesn’t. Talk about Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) is not going to get us anywhere.

      Real sales of real Rossi devices, and the existence of various factories, are currently unproven and I think they are hogwash anyway. No disagreement there, either. The evidence though, says that Rossi is still being funded by his backers. I presume they’ve seen better evidence than has been published, since otherwise they’d be in court in the twinkling of an eye trying to get their money back. If Rossi ends up with something to sell, of course, they’ll get even richer – compensation for having risked a load of money backing Rossi, I suppose.

      The underlying evidence from the money-men, therefore, is that they’ve seen enough to convince them it’s worth investing more. Could be they’re wrong, of course. On the other hand, if Rossi turns out to have nothing workable, then he’s going to end up broke as soon as it becomes incontestable. May be a reason for him to stretch it out a bit, but I can’t see that phase lasting more than a few years. If he’s lying about his sales and factories, well a lot of salesmen do things like that. If he’s lying about having had something work, then he’ll be bankrupt with no chance of earning money again in his lifetime. If he’s really had something work, but can’t reliably repeat it, this could go on for years yet.

      Best buy some more popcorn and wait and see.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig, your ideas are exactly why, for me, Bigfoot is an open question. There are no bodies, but there are a lot of eye-witness accounts. This puts it in the open question category. I actually enjoy this kind of conflicting evidence. It makes us think.

      And everything that you say about Rossi is exactly why he is in the open question category. I am not required to make a decision about either Rossi or Bigfoot. If I was an investor and he came to my door, I would say, show me the evidence or go away.

  106. gbgoble Says:

    Mystery or Knot Science

    Love is a bridge – Connecting
    Love is a lattice – Vibration
    Love is a life – Learning
    Love is a world – Sharing
    Love is a source – Abundant

    Love is the air. We Breathe of…
    Love is the water. We Drink in…
    Love is the fire. We Live with…

    Art of love is science
    Source of wellbeing
    Heart of matter

    The be all
    The end

    Cold Fusion

  107. Roger Bird Says:

    My “hobby” is health, so I know a thing or two about it. When I enter a grocery store, and I look around, everything that my eyes land on is a lie. Even the placement of the items is intended to get past your critical thinking. The color schemes are a scheme, intended to get past your critical thinking. The prices with the X.99 is a scam. The word “natural” as are a whole bunch of other words are a lie. Even the word “organic” has become corrupted. And yet, with a little patience and knowledge, one can ferret out the truth.

    We are like this with Rossi. Just about everything we hear from him is at least hot air if not a lie. Yet the Focardi letter, the truth of LENR, the impressive (but uncertain) demos, and a bunch of other things makes Rossi an interesting person to look in on every now and then.

  108. jetmech Says:

    Mr Roger Bird i concur! That is all I am saying!
    Except I go a bit further and say the “hot air if not a lie” when combined with “uncertain” demos AND the fact that Rossi is
    seeking INVESTORS now makes it a scam. Yes with a little patience and knowledge one can ferret out the truth!

  109. jetmech Says:

    Mr Brucefast why do I say the “Rossi Ecat can not work as advertised”
    First Rossi says how it works is a secret, the “catalyst” is a secret.
    Second he says it gives off gamma radiation and transmutes nickel
    into copper he gives the “ashes” to a scientist who tests the
    “ashes” and says it is the same ratio of isotopes you find in
    Then Rossi says he “enriches” the nickel isotopes (cheaply)
    Which would be a profitable deal in just doing that!
    THEN he says it gives off NO RADIATION!
    AND REMEMBER Rossi says the whole secret thing can NEVER
    be given out! Too convenient for you too?
    And then

    • brucefast Says:

      You make a fine case that Rossi’s description of his apparatus cannot be accurate.

      However, a bunch of other guys are claiming that they have devices that aren’t miles different than Rossi’s device. These devices put out much more heat than can be explained by a chemical reaction. These devices don’t seem to kill them (ie, no correlated release of toxic levels of gamma radiation.)

      The basics of what Rossi claims, Ni + H = heat, is well replicated!

  110. jetmech Says:

    Mr Brucefast

    Damn those brainiac scientists!

    What do they know?

    They can not even find BIGFOOT!

    Them Scientist would’nt know a laser if it bounced off the moon!
    Because everyone knows we NEVER landed on the moon!
    What could a “scientist” know about a transistor! Just because
    one of them invented it?

    Them there “Scientists” are given too much credit!
    They throw around words like “Quantum” like they
    know something more than a guy selling
    books who uses the term “Quantum” knows!

    They have “Q” ray bracelets fer chirsakes!

  111. jetmech Says:

    Mr gbgoble

  112. jetmech Says:

    Damn those math wizards! Mr gbgoble!

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Why damn the math wizards?
      …in order to create a reservoir of order.
      Here is another example of something that we do ‘do’ without really understanding what’s going on… math helps.

      “Wow, wrap your mind around that… no juice!”
      said the 10 year old (yet to be recognized math wizard)
      from the crowd, as they watched the magnetic mobius
      wind round at a science fair in Norway.

      Möbius Track for Magnetically Levitating Train

      A world-first flux pinning demonstrator with a levitating train rotating about its own axis in three dimensions.
      As part of the MOSEM² project a group of students at Vestfold University College, Norway, has developed and produced a unique Moebius-shaped track for a superconducting levitating train. This is an extension of the MOSEM “High-Tech Kit” which contains a straight track for demonstration of two types of levitation; with the Meissner effect and with flux pinning.
      The Möbius track employs the flux pinning phenomenon to keep the train “on track” while it zips around the track. The geometry of a Möbius band allows the train to keep going in circles while also turning around its own axis. This proves that levitation with flux pinning is highly stable and different from magnetic levitation by simple magnetic repulsion using electromagnets (used by commercial full-size levitating trains) or permanent magnets (used by some model trains) that can only work on a horizontal track.
      This model demonstrates a completely new concept that inspires a vision for the future of transportation.
      See the Moebius project website for more information! (Norwegian languauge)
      Music: “Pulse” from the composer Mattias Häggström Gerdt:

      All cutting edge research is ‘outside’ of the mainstream like a fetus is ‘outside’ its mother. ‘Aware of awareness’… ‘incubation processes not yet realized’.. ‘not yet a mother yet’… all are phrases that begin to hint at hidden complexities.
      Consider the patterns in the prose.

      What? Are you saying it’s NOT science? Huh?

      Mystery or Knot Science

      Mystery is a bridge – Intertwining

      Love is a lattice – Vibration
      Love is a life – Learning
      Love is a source – Energizing
      Love is a world – Operation

      Love is the air. We Breathe of…
      Love is the fire. We Live with…
      Love is the water. We Drink in…
      Love is the earth. We Birth from…

      Art of Love of Science
      Right of Well Being
      Essence of Spirit
      Heart Matter

      The be all
      The end

      Cold Fusion


  113. jetmech Says:

    Scientists are just confined to a box?
    Listen and learn!

  114. jetmech Says:

    The whole STEORN – ROSSI type thing is driven by the idea
    of “conspiracies”
    First you have to imagine that there is a thing called “mainstream science”
    And there is a thing called NON “Mainstream Science”
    What does “NON Mainstream Science” mean?
    I guess anything you make up! Like “ancient aliens, Bigfoot, Atlantis, lizards that live under the earth oh yeah ‘SLEETACKS” “free energy” from whatever source as long as you use the word
    “Quantum” WOOO WOOO the word “Quantum” is sacred!

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, “First you have to imagine that there is a thing called ‘mainstream science’ And there is a thing called NON ‘Mainstream Science'”.

      Yes, there is mainstream science, and non-mainstream science.

      Years ago I had horrendous back problems. My friend in med school assured me that chiropractic was, well, hooey. That was the view of mainstream science.

      One day I heard that the AMA supported abortion rights. Abortion is evil. The AMA, therefore, is evil. So I concluded that the AMA, mainstream science, was not to be trusted. I went to the chiropractor, who fixed my horrendous back problems. There is mainstream science, and non-mainstream science.

      Mainstream science calls all LENR “pathological”. However, Rossi is not necessary to discover that LENR is very much real. There is mainstream science and non-mainstream science.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bruce, didn’t you also discover the great divorce between mainstream science and non-mainstream science when you tried your low carb diet and was healed of obesity and other digestive problems. People make these kinds of discoveries very day. What is necessarily is only that people think for themselves and look outside the box.

      • brucefast Says:

        Actually, I discovered a gluten free diet that healed me of obesity and diabetes (well, not totally on both fronts.) My doctor still doesn’t believe that the wheat had anything to do with it. He says, “honeymoon periods are strange.” (A honeymoon period is a period of time when a person’s pancreas decides wake up for no apparent reason.)

        Yup, totally not within the grid of mainstream science.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        My honeymoon period with doctors is over. We got divorced.

  115. jetmech Says:

    and again

  116. Greg Goble Says:

    Much love to you Mr. Jetmech… peace and wellbeing.
    The process of prose is publication (sharing), feedback (inspiration), understanding (improvement). change (epic result).

    This cold fusion poetry piece is finished, sparked by dialog here.
    Mystery or Knot Science is dedicated to Rossi and the E-Cat.

    Mystery or Knot Science

    Mystery is a knot – Intertwining
    Science is an art – Unravelling

    Love is a life – Learning
    Love is a lattice – Vibration
    Love is a source – Energizing
    Love is a world – Operation

    Love is the air. We Breathe of…
    Love is the fire. We Live with…
    Love is the water. We Drink in…
    Love is the earth. We Birth from…

    Art of Love of Science
    Rite of Well Being
    Essence of Spirit
    Heart Matter

    The be all
    The end

    Cold Fusion


  117. jetmech Says:

    So I have made my point about nature. What is your point?
    That because you had problems that were healed by a gluten free
    diet that the “Rossi Ecat” MUST EXIST?
    That is your point?

    So the MOBIUS TRACK thing is NOT free energy?

    So why post it? As a side show?

    The “Rossi Ecat” still does not exist.

    I have made my point about Science and nature vs Physics!

    You are now arguing about “back problems”?

    And Greg Goble is just posting words he supposes go together?

    That is all you got?
    Explain to me again what any of that stuff you posted
    has to do with the “Rossi Ecat”!

    Mr Greg Goble

    I have your knot or not!

    The tale of the Gordian Knot is one of the best known stories told about Gordion, and one of the few that features Gordion in a popular figure of speech. The story recounts an episode that took place in 333 BCE during the campaigns of Alexander of Macedon against the Persian Empire. Alexander was advancing with his army across Anatolia and came to Gordion, probably because this was a natural stopping point on the road that led inland from the Aegean Coast towards Ankara (ancient Ancyra) and further east.
    [Alexander the Great of Macedon cuts the Gordian Knot in the Temple of Zeus.]

    Alexander the Great of Macedon cuts the Gordian Knot in the Temple of Zeus.
    While at Gordion, the Macedonian king learned about a special wagon that was situated in the Temple of Zeus. The pole of the wagon was tied to the wagon body with an intricate knot of cornel bark, and a prophecy had foretold that whoever could unfasten the knot would go on to rule over Asia (or even the whole settled world, in one version). Seized by a longing to test the prophecy, Alexander tried to unfasten the knot by unraveling it, but when he was unable to do so, he drew his sword and cut right through it. From this comes the proverbial expression “to cut the Gordian Knot”, meaning to cut right to the heart of a matter without wasting time on external details.
    For the site of ancient Gordion, however, this account owes its interest not only to the connection with Alexander, but also to the explanatory legend attached to it, one that describes the reason for the existence of the knot and the wagon, and its dedication in the Temple of Zeus. The general outline of the legend is as follows: there was once a poor Phrygian peasant named Gordios who was plowing his fields, when an eagle came and sat on the yoke of his plow, remaining there all day. Perturbed as to what this might mean, he consulted the Telmessian people, an ancient race of prophets. Gordios came upon a Telmessian woman, standing in a doorway, who ordered him to sacrifice to Zeus. Gordios did so and also married the woman, who produced a son named Midas. When Midas was grown, he happened one day to drive up into Gordion in his father’s wagon, while the city was in the midst of civil strife. The people of Gordion immediately proclaimed Midas as their king, since they had been told by an oracle that a wagon would end their civil war by bringing them a king. The newly proclaimed king Midas accepted the throne and dedicated the wagon in the Temple of Zeus as a thank-offering to the god and as acknowledgement of the sign of the eagle, the sacred bird of Zeus, that had predicted his kingship.
    [Sargon II and a dignitary, from the king’s palace at Khorsabad.]

    Sargon II and a dignitary, from the king’s palace at Khorsabad.
    This legend can be found in several accounts of Alexander’s campaigns, although with some variations in details: in a few cases it was Midas who was proclaimed king, while in others, the honor was given to his father Gordios, and Midas followed him in the kingship. All variants are consistent, however, in connecting the legend with the foundation of royal hegemony in Gordion. The core of the story may well preserve a local Phrygian tradition recounting how Midas, and perhaps also his father Gordios before him, claimed the throne of Phrygia with divine aid. Gordios himself is a shadowy figure, little known outside of this story, but Midas is a well-known ruler whose reign, 738 – 696 BCE, as recorded by the early church historian Eusebios, coincides with the references to a king named Mita of Mushki in the annals of the Assyrian king Sargon II.
    The presence of Zeus and his eagle strongly implies divine approval of Midas’s kingship, while the reference to the prophetically gifted Telmessian maiden in the doorway may well allude to the Phrygian Mother goddess, regularly depicted standing in a doorway, and her role in proclaiming Midas’s kingship. Several elements of the legend fall into well-known ancient Near Eastern story patterns of kingship foundation: the divine messenger (the eagle) from the gods, the use of the wagon as a symbol of kingship, the close connection between a new king and a prominent female divinity. But the legend as we have it from the Alexander historians seems to preserve a unique version that was local to Gordion and Phrygia, recording how the kingship of Midas was established in Gordion with the support of the dominant male and female divinities in the Phrygian pantheon. The legend gives us a small window into the Phrygians’ traditions of their own past that are otherwise lost to us.

    Please before you speak
    Know what you are speaking about!

    Where can I find a “Rossi Ecat”?

    Nowhere you say?

  118. jetmech Says:

    Your KNOT
    The Gordian Knot?

    why not Minot?

    (missile silo in North Dakota)

  119. jetmech Says:

    So Scientists who have worked all their adult lives to
    explain the universe are all wrong?
    They are just “mainstream Science”?
    All these people are just wasting their lives?
    Because YOU think so?
    Microwaves, Lasers, transistors, computers exist or not exist?

    However in spite of all these successes Big Foot, Ancient Aliens
    Slee Stacks etc.

    And the “Rossi Ecat” exist?

    I think Not!

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, please put your logic hat on for a moment.

      It is LENR that has been labeled “pathological science”. So the root question, as has always been stated on this site, is the legitimacy of LENR.

      Is LENR real? If so, then non-mainstream science got one right for a change. If not, then the real scientists who claim that they have it are lying/deluded.

      Rossy shmossy, LENR is the question.

  120. jetmech Says:


    • Greg Goble Says:

      Engineer W. Mohorn / Aquapol

      Functional Foundations for a Novel Generator

      In 1983 a system was developed in Austria, capable of demoisturizing whole buildings without direct intervention to the masonry nor the use of chemicals. It requires no conventional energy supply yet maintains the lowered moisture levels. Throughout Europe there are more than 21 000 successfull Aquapol installations, some of them in internationally famous locations such as the Budapest Parliament, Hungary; the Joseph Haydn Museum in Eisenstadt, Austria et al.

      Scholastic physics offered no explanation for the working principles. However Years later and through his own research the inventor, Wilhelm Mohorn, was able to find the functional foundations of this revolutionary technology, for which earned him an Austrian National Prize Award: the “Kaplan Medal”.

      3.2 Extended physics

      Due to many inexplicable phenomena and my own intensive fundamental research there are 3 more physical spectra of energy missing, which are shown in the completed Fig. 3. One of them is electrogravity, which explains all those physical effects where electricity influences gravity. The flying technology of UFOs may be explicable with this, and the famous Bielefeld–Brown effect is also related to this energy spectrum.

      In order to explain the function of the Aquapol technology the other two energy spectra do have special significance, which are gravomagnetism (very similar to electromagnetism) and, last but not least, the proto-energy of the universe. Apparently the 3 static and 3 dynamic forms of energy are in balance with each other. The cosmic proto-energy is superior to all other energy forms. That is why it is placed at the top of the energy pyramid. Finally, matter draws a direct connection between the proto-energy and the 3 static and 3 dynamic forms of energy.

  121. jetmech Says:

    Goble MISDIRECTION of topic!

    And so what? Mr Goble? What came of that study?

    By “Aquapol” of moisture levels?
    And what does that have to do with the “Rossi Ecat”?
    Interesting “electricity influences gravity” WOW!
    How does that work?
    Ok I love the words “energy spectra”!
    What do those words mean when put together with
    other words?
    The “proto-energy” of the universe!

    What does that mean? WOW “cosmic proto-energy” 3 static and 3 dynamic forms of energy!


    Do You even have ANY idea at all of what you are typing?

    It is easy to put words together songwriters do it all the time!

    Bielefeld–Brown effect does NOT work in a vacuum because
    air is not present – it is just air movement caused by ionic
    movement of AIR molecules.

    And what does that have to do with the ROSSI ECAT?


    So what is your point?

    The topic remains the Rossi Ecat!


    Stay on topic!

  122. jetmech Says:

    “Jetmech, please put your logic hat on for a moment.

    It is LENR that has been labeled “pathological science”. So the root question, as has always been stated on this site, is the legitimacy of LENR.

    Is LENR real? If so, then non-mainstream science got one right for a change. If not, then the real scientists who claim that they have it are lying/deluded.

    Rossy shmossy, LENR is the question.”

    NO YOU PROVE what LENR has to do with Rossi!
    My question is not LENR it is Rossi!

    I agree “Rossy shmossy!

    What does LENR have to do with Rossi and his Ecat?

    You seem to distance YOURSELF from that!


    The Rossi Ecat is in question NOT LENR!

    ANSWER THE QUESTION about the “Rossi Ecat”!

    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, on you said, “First you have to imagine that there is a thing called “mainstream science”
      And there is a thing called NON “Mainstream Science””

      LENR is considered to be pathological by the mainstream science community.

      If LENR is real, then there is such a thing as non-mainstream science.

      Is LENR for real?

      PS: Jetmech, some of your comments have had no meaning, they were drivel. I deleted them.

      • Greg Goble Says:

        Acadamia? These articles have helped me to further understand the dynamics of discovery. So much to learn, I hope you enjoy them as well…. acadamia at work… a bit of history.

        From EdgeScience #2 January thru March 2010

        THE OBSERVATORY section
        “Types of Anomalies: OK, Not-Ok, and Sleeping”,
        An Editorial by Peter Sturrock

        Anomalies should be the life-blood of science. Niels Bohr once said that “progress in science is impossible without a paradox,” and Richard Feynman has remarked that “The thing that doesn’t fit is the thing that is most interesting.” The crucial point to note about “anomaly” is that it is a relative concept, not an absolute concept. A result is an anomaly only with respect to a given theory or hypothesis. In scientific research, it would typically be an experimental or observational result that is not in accord with current theory. Therein lies its importance: An anomaly provides a test of a theory. As Feynman’s remark implies, it is much more important to search for facts that do not agree with current theory than to find further facts that do agree with that theory. If a certain fact, which is incompatible with a given theory, can be firmly established, then that theory must be modified or abandoned. Different anomalies evoke very different responses from the scientific community. To clarify matters, I suggest that we may distinguish three categories that we may refer to as “OK Anomalies,” “Not-OK Anomalies,” and “Sleeping Anomalies.”

        An “OK Anomaly” is one that has been discovered by an established scientist, preferably using expensive equipment, and which appears to be an anomaly that scientists can cope with. Examples of OK Anomalies include the discovery of quasars and pulsars. Claims for both of these astronomical discoveries were made by established astronomers using powerful (and expensive) optical or radio telescopes. Both anomalies were viewed as due more to limitations in our astronomical knowledge than to errors in our understanding of physics.

        A “Not-OK Anomaly” is one that is not obviously resolvable and presents an unwelcome challenge to established scientists, possibly (but not necessarily) because it has been discovered by a non-scientist. A classical example of a Not-OK Anomaly is the case of meteorites. These objects fall from the sky and may be discovered by any citizen (with or without a college degree), and no specialized equipment is required. In 1772, French Academicians had ruled that these objects could not have fallen from the sky, since there are no stones in the sky to fall. The authenticity of meteorite falls was finally and incontrovertibly established by the distinguished scientist Jean-Batiste Biot, who was sent by the President of the National Institute to investigate a particularly large meteorite fall (over 3,000 stony meteorites) that occurred at L’Aigle, in Normandy, on April 25, 1803. A list of current Not-OK anomalies would contain many topics that are generally dismissed as bogus by the scientific community, such as UFOs and psi phenomena, as well as cold fusion and anomalous healing, two subjects touched upon in this issue.

        A “Sleeping Anomaly” is one that has not yet been generally recognized as an anomaly. A historical example of a “Sleeping Anomaly” is the close geometrical match between the west coast of Africa and the east coast of South America. This fact had been noted by Francis Bacon and others, but it was not generally recognized as a challenge to understanding until Alfred Wegener drew new attention to it early in the 20th Century. Wegener attributed the correspondence to the breakup of one large continent (referred to as “Pangea”) and the progressive separation of the parts by a process he called “continental drift.” This proposal was ridiculed for many years, especially by geophysicists. The tide turned when geophysicists found that the magnetic signatures on the two sides of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge were effectively mirror-imaged, showing this ridge to be a “spreading center,” a concept that plays a key role in what is known as “plate tectonics.”

        We now know that the scientific community was in error in its response to the challenge of meteorites and to that of continental configurations. Can we be sure that we, scientists of the 21st Century, are not making similar errors in our response to some current anomalies?

        NEWS NOTEBOOK section
        “Cold Fusion: Is Vindication at Hand” sec1:14

        Does Size Matter?
        The basic scientific issue at the center of cold fusion research is how low-energy chemical energies can trigger high-energy nuclear reactions. Indeed there are now numerous published experiments, in which deuterons have been inserted or loaded into a solid, that have produced energies far beyond what can be explained chemically. But not always reliably. “Most people believe that materials issues are at the heart of current inabilities to fully reproduce and control LENR experiments,” wrote David Nagel, adjunct professor of engineering and applied sciences of the George Washington University in Washington, D.C, in a scientific review of the 15th International Conference on Cold Fusion in Rome originally published in Infinite Energy Magazine.

        Could nanostructured materials be the solution to this vexing problem? There has been a recent breakthrough in which excess heat in nanostructured materials was confirmed by four labs, starting with the work of Dr. Yoshiaki Arata, and Yue-Chang Zhang of Osaka University in Japan. Arata and Zhang found that excess energy can be reliably generated at room temperatures by exposing finely divided palladium powder to deuterium gas. The material used by Arata and Zhang had an initial particle size near 5 nanometers. (To put this in perspective a nanometer is a billionth of a meter, or about 50,000 times finer than the average human hair.) The researchers found that surface area plays an important role in obtaining a solid-state nuclear reaction. But while there is good agreement that it is crucial to have small particles, there is little understanding about why the effect occurs and what role surface area plays.

        Has a method finally been found to control excess power production so that a fixed and predictable amount can be obtained?

  123. jetmech Says:

    No YOU are saying LENR is considered “pathological” by “mainstream science!
    Prove to me what the term “mainstream science” means!
    Yet YOU have sidestepped my question!
    What is non-mainstream Science!
    AS YOU sidestep every question!
    Why do you say that LENR is NON MAINSTREAM?
    When you have given NO definition of what “Mainstream Science”
    Is? Vs Non- Mainstream?
    AND What does the Rossi Ecat have to do with ANY “stream” of Science?
    Where in this universe that we live in does the “Rossi Ecat” exist?
    What tests or sales of this mythical device exist?
    Rossi is now selling “shares” NOT devices!
    You can MISDIRECT all you want!
    I do not fall for your BS!
    Where does a TESTED and OR SOLD Ecat exist?
    ALL the rest is just BS!
    Direct me to a sold or independently tested “Rossi Ecat”
    or shut up!
    Just shut up!
    Quit typing!
    PROVE IT (Rossi Ecat)

  124. jetmech Says:

    Gee I guess not!
    You say terms like “Mainstream Science”
    Is that not enough (the idea that there is a concept called
    “non-mainstream”) Science!
    To get you labelled as a 10 year old child?
    only a 10 year old mentally challenged idiot
    would put forth the idea that there is something called
    “non-mainstream science”!
    How f in stupid are you?
    Science is Science You retard!
    There are no “loopholes”
    If you want loopholes call a lawyer!
    Good luck on that “bigfoot idea”

  125. jetmech Says:

    Remember the “Rossi Ecat” is the question!
    Not how dumb you appear to be defending him!

  126. jetmech Says:

    OK You have not answered my question!

    I will repeat my honey badgering misdirecting miscreant posters!

    No YOU are saying LENR is considered “pathological” by “mainstream science!
    Prove to me what the term “mainstream science” means!
    Yet YOU have sidestepped my question!
    What is non-mainstream Science!
    AS YOU sidestep every question!
    Why do you say that LENR is NON MAINSTREAM?
    When you have given NO definition of what “Mainstream Science”
    Is? Vs Non- Mainstream?
    AND What does the Rossi Ecat have to do with ANY “stream” of Science?
    Where in this universe that we live in does the “Rossi Ecat” exist?
    What tests or sales of this mythical device exist?
    Rossi is now selling “shares” NOT devices!
    You can MISDIRECT all you want!
    I do not fall for your BS!
    Where does a TESTED and OR SOLD Ecat exist?
    ALL the rest is just BS!
    Direct me to a sold or independently tested “Rossi Ecat”
    or shut up!
    Just shut up!
    Quit typing!
    PROVE IT (Rossi Ecat)

    Just talk about honey badgers!
    While you wait fer yer Bill Beat

    Prove the Ross Ecat or just shut up!

    Somehow this site aint being controlled by yer buddy
    Bill Beaty !

    Where you can just change the subject and a bunch of yer
    hillbilly BIll Beaty ass clowns jump to your rescue!

    I know very well how you “eskimo vortex” ass clowns work.

    When you are getting beaten you just change the subject
    And yore ass clown buddies join in!

    Not here apparently!

    Changing the subject is called “misdirection”! While you wait fer yer
    Bill Beatty directed Homo’s to back you up!

    Sadly they are not here!

    And you have got to answer my question!

    Where is any proof whatsoever that the “Rossi Ecat” actually works?


    • brucefast Says:

      Jetmech, sometimes you ramble and natter. Please try to focus your thoughts before pressing post. All mini-posts by you are being deleted because they plug up the “recent comments” list.

      You are the one who was discussing mainstream science vs. non-mainstream science, yet now you are demanding a definition.

      In my opinion mainstream science is the science taught in college level science textbooks. Mainstream science is not mocked by the mainstream. Mainstream science is not discussed as “pathological” by wikipedia.

      LENR is repeatedly described as “pathological” by wikipedia ( ). Consider this article: why would such be written if LENR were mainstream? (This is the topic of this post, by the way.)

      LENR is real. LENR is not respected by the scientific community as real.

  127. Greg Goble Says:

    Sshhhh… e-cat maternity ward. Quiet please… sshhhh…

  128. jetmech Says:

    SO “non mainstream science” is SCIENCE that produces no results?
    Science that produces results is called “mainstream” science?
    So “bigfoot” results are “non mainstream”?
    I do not get your point!
    Let me see “pointless non provable asssertions” are given the
    title of “non mainstream science”!
    So actually you promote the idea of “Science that is NOT Science”?
    All right if “Science” can NOT prove that Santa Claus DOES
    NOT exist then “NON Maistream Science” CAN prove he exists”?

    Let me get this straight

    Santa Claus is not proven to exist by “mainstream Science”
    So “non Mainstream Science takes over”? to PROVE Santa Claus

    You left me!

    What does LENR have to do with the unproven so far “non
    existant” Rossi Ecat?

    The “Rossi Ecat” is NON – Existant!

    What is your point about a non proven – non existant device
    called the “Rossi Ecat”?

  129. jetmech Says:


  130. jetmech Says:

    Shh Ecat Maternity ward!
    Wait is for ETERNITY!

    Time without beginning or end; infinite time.
    2. The state or quality of being eternal.

  131. jetmech Says:

    So “Somewhere in time” a Rossi Ecat will exist?
    As proven by something called “Non Mainstream Science”?
    OK I am rolling over the floor!
    OK “Non Mainstream Science” is a type of “Science”
    that has no proven results?
    And as such one can ascribe ANYTHING to be the result of
    “Non Mainstream Science”?
    Santa Claus?
    Tooth Fairy?
    Gee where does “Non Mainstream Science begin? Or end?

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Aneutronic Fusion Spacecraft Architecture LENR Cold Fusion

      George Miley is poised to harness electricity from LENR without a Rankine or Carnot cycle and utilize it to power Aneutronic Fusion Spacecraft. Coincidentally NASA released its latest posting about LENR technology on its Climate Change site. NASA sees LENR as the solution to global warming and planned space missions yet unrealized.

      Colonization of the solar system is the goal. (Deep Space Industries) and (Planetary Resources Inc.) WOW!

      I’m also excited to share with you the latest video in the following climate conversation series, The Price of Carbon. This short video, narrated by comedian and musician Reggie Watts, underscores the high cost we are all already paying for carbon pollution.

      Posted by Maggie L. Fox – President & CEO – The Climate Reality Project

      “From Superstorm Sandy to soaring temperatures in Australia, ongoing drought that has parched more than 60% of the U.S., and flooding from hurricanes around the world, we are experiencing the consequences of our carbon pollution now. We are paying the cost of these dirty weather disasters and other climate impacts through taxes, medical bills, and insurance rates (to name just a few). It’s past time to talk about the real cost of carbon pollution and to take action so that the polluters are paying their fair share.”

      “In the spirit of moving forward to solve the climate crisis, it’s time to jump-start a real carbon conversation. Watch the video. Share it with your friends. Be part of the carbon conversation.”

      Be sure to mention that Cold Fusion research is NOW emerging as LENR Engineering.

      “Aneutronic Fusion Spacecraft Architecture”
      Final Research Activity Report (SEPTEMBER 2012) P.I.: Alfonso G.
      Collaborators: John H. Scott, George H. Miley – University of Houston – Clear Lake, Houston

  132. jetmech Says:

    My friend!
    Why can you not be enetertained by fiction?
    NARNIA is “Non Mainstream”!!!!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      All currently and widely accepted facts in science and technology were at one time non-mainstream science. From your computer screen to the polyester in your socks to the theories of Evolution and Relativity, etc. someone put it down as not being true, not being real, not being proven, not being practical, etc. It took 100 years for science to get over the phlogiston theory, that flames were something coming out of the wood, not oxygen combining with carbon in the wood. And I am sure that during that period of time hundreds of honest investigators were slammed and put down and perhaps even lost their jobs because of resistance to change, no matter how much sense said change made.

  133. Craig Binns Says:


    Even if we accept that this is true: “All currently and widely accepted facts in science and technology were at one time non-mainstream science.” the converse is emphatically NOT true: that all non-mainstream science will one day be mainstream. And that is what is being discussed here.


    “George Miley is poised to harness electricity from LENR … ” Poised, eh? Well let me know when he succeeds! I bet Rossi and Defkalion are “poised” too!

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – the two problems we’ve got with Nickel-based LENR are that we’re not yet fully certain it really happens, and also that we don’t know why. There aren’t any fully-accepted theories that tell us what we need to do to make it work. As I see it Ed Storms probably has the best ideas of the overall mechanism, but he says he cannot yet pin things down.

      It’s thus doubly difficult to devise a device that will reliably use Nickel to produce energy. Miley is a good scientist and seems pretty sure he can do it reliably, and ditto for Brillouin. They have their own (divergent) theories as to the how and why it works. Defkalion have what seems to be a good group of scientists and engineers working on their ideas. Rossi, well… he may have something.

      It takes time to make new stuff and test it, then tweak various parts and test again, since there are lot of variables and a lot of them are not yet known. The timescale from having a successful experiment to getting a reliable commercial product is not predictable – it never has been. If you can reliably predict it, it’s not an experiment but a demonstration of what you already know. All predictions as to timescale, therefore, should be taken with a large pinch of salt, and things will arrive in the shops for us to buy quite some time after they have been proved to be reliable.

      It looks to be a while yet before anyone is going to show a reliably commercial LENR product, so get some more popcorn while you wait. Try reading publications by Ed Storms to get a better idea of what is likely to be happening at atomic level – he’s pretty clear and easy to read.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig Binns, you haven’t been around here for a while, so you may not know what is being discussed. What you say is absolutely, positively true: just because everything that we have in technology and science used to be non-mainstream, the reverse is not necessarily true. But there is someone here who is so bonkers that it is difficult to tell exactly what he is saying, but he keeps putting down non-mainstream science as being non-existent, I think. So I just reminded him that everything we have used to be non-mainstream science.

      I don’t think that he is saying that there is no non-mainstream science and that everything is just science or not science (like painting would be not science). I believe that he is trying to deny that some scientists are ostracized if they work on some projects rather than others, which Halton Arp and many others would take exception to.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Heartening is the patent George Miley has recieved….
      For a working LENR device… I’m pleased!

      1. a state of balance or equilibrium, as from equality or equal distribution of weight; equipoise.
      2. a dignified, self-confident manner or bearing; composure; self-possession: to show poise in company.
      3. steadiness; stability: intellectual poise.
      4. suspense or wavering, as between rest and motion or two phases of motion: the poise of the tides.
      5. the way of being poised, held, or carried.
      verb (used with object)
      7. to adjust, hold, or carry in equilibrium; balance evenly.
      8. to hold supported or raised, as in position for casting, using, etc.: to poise a spear.
      9. to hold or carry in a particular manner: She walked, carefully poising a water jug on her head.
      10. Obsolete . to weigh.
      verb (used without object)
      11. to rest in equilibrium; be balanced.
      12. to hover, as a bird in the air.
      Origin: 1350–1400; (noun) Middle English pois ( e ) weight < Old French ( French poids ) < Late Latin pēnsum, noun use of neuter past participle of Latin pendere to weigh; (v.) Middle English poisen to weigh < Old French poiser, variant, based on tonic stem, of peser < Latin pēnsāre, frequentative of pendere

      Synonyms – self-assurance; polish, grace, refinement.

      Antonym – instability

  134. jetmech Says:

    So what?
    There is nobody – that is precisely “no one” that has proven the existence of “free energy”
    the operative word is proven!
    George Miley
    Andrea Rossi
    Stanley Meyer
    Papp engine
    the MEG (motionless electric generator) Tom Bearden
    However what has that to do with ‘MAINSTREAM SCIENCE”?

    Roger Bird
    Are you just crazy?
    What about polyester socks are “non mainstream”?

    predicted by MAINSTREAM SCIENCE!

    BY the way the “phlogiston” theory was put forth
    BEFORE “mainstream Science” was invented you chuckle head!

    As usual you are So totally wrong you are not even wrong!

    Go back to believing in Bill Beatty!

    and his all knowing “sky god” who sits in judgement of ALL you chuckleheads!

    —James Downey, Billy Madison[1]

    Not even wrong refers to any statement, argument or explanation that can be neither correct nor incorrect, because it fails to meet the criteria by which correctness and incorrectness are determined.

    The phrase implies that not only is someone not making a valid point in a discussion, but they don’t even understand the nature of the discussion itself, or the things that need to be understood in order to participate.


    Go slink into another corner of the internet in which yor GOD BILL BEATTY can rescue you!

  135. jetmech Says:

    I am glad however that we have determined that “BIGFOOT” is
    NON Mainstream Science!

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Scientists (enquiring minds) must continually be motivated by the “mother” of all questions: What facets of nature remain undiscovered because what we consider (think) to be theoretical certainties prevent the posing of new challenging questions?
      Beverly Rubik IE26 1999

      “Healing the Placebo Effect” gbgoble2013

      Our conception of the placebo effect needs healing, no one presently understands it. Energy healing may also be misunderstood. On the one hand, actual healing caused by the placebo effect is dismissed; something to be accounted for or avoided in research studies. On the other hand, energy healings’ positive therapeutic results have been dismissed as the result of known psychological mechanisms.

      Are the placebo effect and energy healing a con job?

      Wiki quote

      Energy medicine, energy therapy, or energy healing, a branch of complementary and alternative medicine, holds the belief that a healer can channel healing energy into the person seeking help by different methods: hands-on, hands-off, and distant (or absent) where the patient and healer are in different locations. There are various schools of energy healing. It is known as bio-field energy healing, spiritual healing, contact healing, distant healing, therapeutic touch, Reiki or Qigong. Spiritual healing is largely non-denominational: practitioners do not see traditional religious faith as a prerequisite for effecting a cure. Faith healing, by contrast, takes place within a religious context.

      Early reviews of the scientific literature on energy healing were equivocal and recommended further research, but more recent reviews have concluded that there is no evidence supporting clinical efficacy. The theoretical basis of healing has been criticised, research and reviews supportive of energy medicine have been criticised for containing methodological flaws and selection bias and…

      …”positive therapeutic results have been dismissed as”

      (op.ed. – “…yet positive therapeutic results may effectively”)

      …”the result of known psychological mechanisms.” (con job)

      (op.ed. – “… be caused by unknown physiological (mind/body) mechanisms.”)

      Edzard Ernst, lately Professor of Complementary and Alternative Medicine at the University of Exeter, has warned that… ”healing continues to be promoted despite the absence of biological plausibility or convincing clinical evidence … that these methods work therapeutically and plenty to demonstrate that they do not.” Some claims of those purveying “energy medicine” devices are known to be fraudulent and their marketing practices have drawn law-enforcement action in the U.S. (con job)

      -end wiki quote

      The real ‘con job’ is promoting that we cannot choose…


      Being conned (or conning oneself) into a state of unhappiness and an existence of life void of respect and trust. i.e. despair (disease)


      Knowing that you can “con” yourself (and hopefully others) into a state of happiness and an existence of life full of, appreciation, inspiration, and most of all, respect and trust. i.e. hope. (wellness)

      Continually be motivated by the “mother” of all questions…
      Perhaps we should meditate on understanding and utilizing the placebo effect?

      US National Intitutes of Health – National Center for Complimentary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM)

      “Maybe It’s All Placebo?” by Director – Josephine P. Briggs, M.D.

      A recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) showed a positive outcome for tai chi in the management of the troubling symptoms of fibromyalgia—a condition with which many patients struggle and for which conventional medicine has little to offer. That is why this study is so provocative—can a CAM modality really affect this condition?

      In the meantime, we are also interested in understanding and exploring the many components of the placebo effect: what role does expectation play? How important is the patient-provider interaction in health? What is the mind-body connection and how can it be harnessed to promote health and well being?

      As a physician and a researcher, I find these issues intriguing and am excited for us to further explore these important research questions.

      Research Placebo Effect at NCCAM

      Posted to US National Library of Medicine and National Institutes of Health

      “Against the Placebo Effect: A Personal Point of View” Mar 5 2013

      William E Stirton Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, University of Michigan-Dearborn


      The author reviews 10 of his favorite studies which are said to be about the “placebo effect,” but which, instead, show the significance of meaning in a medical context. “Placebos,” he argues, are inert substances which can’t do anything. Yet it’s clear that after the administration of such drugs, things do happen.

      The one (and maybe only) clear thing here is that whatever happens is not due to the placebo (that is what “inert” means). But placebos can be of various colors and forms which can convey compelling meaning to patients. They often represent medical treatment in compelling ways; they can be metonymic representations of the entire medical experience.

      (a metonym is a representation where a part of something comes to represent it all, as in “counting noses,” where the nose represents the whole person, or a “White House statement” where the White House represents the Executive Branch of the US Government; here, the pill represents the whole medical experience)

      More precisely, they can be metonymic simulacra (a simulacrum is a sort of artificial object, like a statue rather than a man, or a placebo rather than an aspirin). Such objects are well known for their powerful abilities to contain and convey meaning; for example, a European cathedral ordinarily is constructed of thousands of metonymic simulacra, from the rose window to the altar.

      In this context, a placebo can repeatedly remind the patient of the medical encounter, its shadings and comforts. Placebos can convey the physicians innermost feelings about medication and treatment; and the clinician can by her simple presence enhance the effectiveness of a medical procedure (and a clinician is hardly a placebo, hardly inert).

      Inert placebos can help us see the human dimensions of medical treatment; but calling these things “placebo effects” dramatically distorts our understanding of such treatments, by focusing on the inert, and avoiding the meaningful. Think “meaning response,” not “placebo effect.” Copyright © 2013 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

      Energy Medicine and the Unifying Concept of Information” Beverly Rubik


      Alternative medicine remains alternative because it poses serious challenges to the mainstream biomedical paradigm of mechanical reductionism and because it requires a new framework. This paper explores some of the hypotheses and challenges of energy medicine including healer interventions, electromagnetic therapies, and homeopathy. Together with new findings from the bioelectromagnetic field, they spell out the rudiments of a new paradigm for biology and medicine based on information.
      Information embraces the complex network of relations in the matter and energy transactions of living systems. It offers a unified view of energy medicine modalities as well as a fresh perspective for biology and medicine and new questions for further research.

      >addendum 3/31/13

      Friends sent this Gorilla Reunion video after reading the article, and then called to converse.

      I was impressed with their reasoning and added this to the article as an experiment for us all.
      They said viewing the video can be healing. That one experiences the high level of communication (information exchange) that is taking place. (the whole family is quickly comfortable with this human)
      That it helps to heal despair and fear, by deeply affecting the brain through an element which is believed to be partly responsible for the placebo effect and energy healing…
      …the functioning of mirror neurons in the brain.
      I was asked to watch the video with an observant, absorbing, and open mind: multiple times, for a couple of days, and watch for changes in my level of well-being.
      This is a subjective experiment, of course, and is valuable as such in its’ own right. Checking it out…


  136. jetmech Says:

    Yeah I guess in the middle ages we had no idea that “Modern Science” would exist!
    You put forth an idea and YOU had to PROVE it to be true
    WAS a MODERN Concept!
    Before that you just said “PHLOGISTON”!
    Now we have to go through the ugly process of actually “proving”
    something to be true or untrue!
    Why do you have a problem with that process?
    Einstein survived it!
    Feynman survived it!
    ANDREA ROSSI did not!
    Andrea Rossi FAILED to prove his theory/device/transmutation!
    The “Scientific process” is called PROOF!
    Einstein provided it
    Feynman provided it

    Stanley meyer
    George Miley
    Tom Beardan

    Have not provided ANYTHING let alone PROOF!

  137. jetmech Says:

    Sorry Mr Goble your MISDIRECTION is duly noted!
    What are you babbling about anyway?
    AND what has anything you are babbling about have to with the “Rossi Ecat”?

  138. jetmech Says:

    I think Mr Goble is truly out of his “element” and is truly babbling!
    I can only guess that he is used to the ESKIMO VORTEX policy!
    And believes he will not ACTUALLY have to answer a live Human Being!
    I can not answer what is in your head!
    Only YOU can know what you are babbling about!
    I can not answer a person who is intellectually challenged
    I will not mock you!.
    Take a breathe take a moment!

  139. jetmech Says:

    Mr Goble NO ONE is here to take your MISDIRECTION and RUN with it!

    • Roger Bird Says:

      jetmech, I want you to know that I deleted all of your posts without reading a single one. They just don’t contribute anything to the discussion. I suggest that you start with fish oil and lowering your carbs and avoiding wheat.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      “jetmech” = code for “delete”

  140. jetmech Says:

    SO You are Mr Bird!
    You have deleted all my posts?
    Why have you deleted my posts?
    So some idiot named “Roger Bird” has deleted my posts!
    What does that make you MR Bird?
    I guess that makes you tolerant?

    SO you are just some “hillbilly” idiot?

    I kinda doubt your ability to ban me
    or just your ability to be a “thinking” human!

    • brucefast Says:

      Mr. Bird deletes your posts from his own e-mail stream. I delete your posts from the site. Please limit yourself to 2 posts per day. Posts beyond that will be deleted.

  141. Gonzalo Says:

    Hi all, here every person is sharing these familiarity, therefore it’s good to read this weblog, and I used to go to see this blog every day.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      We are all waiting. When the third party independent report comes out, this place will be jumping.

      • Craig Binns Says:


        Your first four words are true. I don’t know about the rest.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig, neither does anyone else know if there is going to be a report. So if you wanted to distinguish yourself from the rest of us, you failed. We are all waiting, and no one knows for sure if there is going to be a report or if there is not going to a report. I am guessing 75% yes, but if I keep listening to you alone that number will decline. (:->)

    • Greg Goble Says:

      My hope is that ‘believers’ following cold fusion LENR science prepare for the role that promoting this clean cheap energy will play; in order to accelerate the end of carbon and uranium energy use.

      The recent anti-fracking rally, last summer, in Washington was the largest crowd gathered there in the history of U.S. political demonstrations. People from all walks… creeds… States… ages… and backgrounds. Dozens of organizations joined together forming a coalition of earth loving activists opposing tar sands, fracking, pipelines, peak oil tactics, offshore wells, Alaskan extraction, uranium energy, dirty coal, mountaintop removal, strip mining, etc…. The largest political meeting in the history of our democratic nation, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people.

      Each missing a powerful key to the success they all seek… an energy replacement that will put an end to the destruction… the disease… both the death… and the dead zones created by the fossil fuel and uranium energy industries. The powerful key is a really cheap, clean, abundant, and easy to use energy source. An energy source that has a clear economic imperative (cheap cheap cheap)… with environmental side benefits. Finally an alternative energy source that is easy to sell, both ‘scalable’ and one that delivers ‘on demand energy’, and an energy source that requires no energy storage or transmission systems. Another side benefit (which is not to be underestimated) is that it is a nuclear dense energy (lightweight)… A totally clean atomic energy… Cold Fusion – LENR Energy engineering

      What should every ‘BELIEVER’ do the moment applied LENR engineering hits the market? This will be the E-Cat with its’ published third-party engineering report (in the next month). Followed by happy customers ordering more. (The first customers most likely have orders in for more units.)

      What are each of us prepared to do when validation happens?
      Say “I told you so” to ‘disbelievers’ at MIT, or at the DoE, etc?

      Heck No!

      What we are prepared to do is to present this key to every group and to every individual who went to Washington to end carbon and uranium energy use, and to every person who wished to, yet could not attend. Believers are prepared to teach each of these folks the wonders of applied cold fusion LENR energy.

      The next time…In six months or so… When these anti-carbon and uranium energy folks return to Washington. Their numbers will swell exponentially, and each of them will have this key, which we, the believers, will give them… Cold Fusion Now! LENR Applied Engineering!

      Soon we will become an ocean of cold fusion activists.
      Informed by cold fusion advocates.

      Demanding a turning of the key, LENR energy!

  142. Greg Goble Says:

    Just thought you might enjoy the post… something else to do while we await publication of the 3rd party testing of the industrial e-cat.

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