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	<title>Comments on: Boeing and Nasa working together on LENR aircraft design!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/</link>
	<description>Exploring the technical, economic and social ramifications of Andrea Rossi&#039;s e-cat Cold Fusion reactor.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:15:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Iggy Dalrymple</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iggy Dalrymple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anglos imagine kicking themselves when they goof.  Poles are more proactive and whack their foreheads with their hands (the cumulative effect of all the mini-concussions further aggravating the situation).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anglos imagine kicking themselves when they goof.  Poles are more proactive and whack their foreheads with their hands (the cumulative effect of all the mini-concussions further aggravating the situation).</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Derricutt</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Derricutt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Iggy - maybe I&#039;m looking at the picture too exactly, but it seems that the user is a bald, naked and slightly paunchy man. Since he has to turn the handle, isn&#039;t this a bit masochistic?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iggy &#8211; maybe I&#8217;m looking at the picture too exactly, but it seems that the user is a bald, naked and slightly paunchy man. Since he has to turn the handle, isn&#8217;t this a bit masochistic?</p>
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		<title>By: Iggy Dalrymple</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iggy Dalrymple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 13:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In a busy shop, say a robotic factory, instead of a backstop, you could saw on both sides.....IOW, use work for you backstop.   Having said that, I think the Möbius bandsaw blade was a whimsical invention.  You&#039;d think that if the patent office has time to patent such frivolity, they&#039;d also consider LENR.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
&lt;b&gt;The Butt Kicking Machine&lt;/b&gt;

This is a machine we all could use at certain times, and some people could use daily.  I could see possibilities for a franchise of these, set up in shopping malls.  Your friends would buy you a &quot;ride&quot; after you did something really stupid.  Or you could treat yourself to a session, as a reminder to never do &quot;that&quot; again. This is US Patent # 6,293,874.
http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/images/capture1108200413010_pm.jpg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a busy shop, say a robotic factory, instead of a backstop, you could saw on both sides&#8230;..IOW, use work for you backstop.   Having said that, I think the Möbius bandsaw blade was a whimsical invention.  You&#8217;d think that if the patent office has time to patent such frivolity, they&#8217;d also consider LENR.<br />
~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />
<b>The Butt Kicking Machine</b></p>
<p>This is a machine we all could use at certain times, and some people could use daily.  I could see possibilities for a franchise of these, set up in shopping malls.  Your friends would buy you a &#8220;ride&#8221; after you did something really stupid.  Or you could treat yourself to a session, as a reminder to never do &#8220;that&#8221; again. This is US Patent # 6,293,874.<br />
<a href="http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/images/capture1108200413010_pm.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/images/capture1108200413010_pm.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Simon Derricutt</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Derricutt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 12:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Iggy - I was thinking about the bandsaw blades, and although it gives you twice the number of teeth (so ought to last longer) there are going to be problems in putting a backstop to the blade without it either blunting the teeth or cutting the backstop. Unless it&#039;s very narrow, it&#039;s also going to suffer fatigue of the weld, and thus would probably break before the teeth need sharpening. The drive wheels will also suffer a fair amount of wear also since the blade will not be flat on the return side. Probably better to stick with the standard blade.

The Möbius loveseat on the other hand looks like fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iggy &#8211; I was thinking about the bandsaw blades, and although it gives you twice the number of teeth (so ought to last longer) there are going to be problems in putting a backstop to the blade without it either blunting the teeth or cutting the backstop. Unless it&#8217;s very narrow, it&#8217;s also going to suffer fatigue of the weld, and thus would probably break before the teeth need sharpening. The drive wheels will also suffer a fair amount of wear also since the blade will not be flat on the return side. Probably better to stick with the standard blade.</p>
<p>The Möbius loveseat on the other hand looks like fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Goble</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Goble]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 00:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The data from observed phenomenon explained in terms of hypothesized theories... 
http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Storms-JCMNS-published.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The data from observed phenomenon explained in terms of hypothesized theories&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Storms-JCMNS-published.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Storms-JCMNS-published.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: brucefast</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brucefast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2012 23:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Peter, for the rich response.

1- &quot;Unexplained phenomena&quot; sounds very exciting for a scientist!

2 - &quot;½” of lead is totally insufficient to significantly absorb the expected gamma rays.&quot;  Yes, I think that the lead is there for show.  (Its the code of the inventor, not of the scientist, that runs Rossi&#039;s show.)  Somehow, and I know it makes no sense, these things don&#039;t seem to be outputting a significant amount of gamma rays.  I know that it seems way too good to be true.  The other possibility, of course, is that even though Rossi has reintroduced this technology to the public, he is actually a total fraud.  (You may note that other blogs publish what Rossi says.  I don&#039;t.  I am prepared to believe that  his demonstrations are substantially legitimate,  but I don&#039;t know which of his words are true and which is &quot;marketing&quot; bull-shit.)

3 - &quot;WL postulated the existence of these miraculous super-absorbing plasmon-polariton sheets to “explain” the absence of observable gamma rays.&quot; Oh.  As there seems to be some miraculous shortage of gamma rays in nearly all of the reported experiments, any valid theory must somehow explain this shortage.  

4 - &quot;The purpose of their [NASA&#039;s] invention is to improve the WL plasmon polariton sheets.&quot;  Ah, makes sense.  If WL is bogus then &quot;plasmon polariton sheets&quot; is bogus.  If &quot;plasmon polariton sheets&quot; is bogus, then the NASA patent, and presumably a lot of their research, is bogus. 

&#039;Goes to why we need a theory that reasonably explains the data, doesn&#039;t it.  I may not be a scientist, but I do find science, and especially scientific mystery, exciting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Peter, for the rich response.</p>
<p>1- &#8220;Unexplained phenomena&#8221; sounds very exciting for a scientist!</p>
<p>2 &#8211; &#8220;½” of lead is totally insufficient to significantly absorb the expected gamma rays.&#8221;  Yes, I think that the lead is there for show.  (Its the code of the inventor, not of the scientist, that runs Rossi&#8217;s show.)  Somehow, and I know it makes no sense, these things don&#8217;t seem to be outputting a significant amount of gamma rays.  I know that it seems way too good to be true.  The other possibility, of course, is that even though Rossi has reintroduced this technology to the public, he is actually a total fraud.  (You may note that other blogs publish what Rossi says.  I don&#8217;t.  I am prepared to believe that  his demonstrations are substantially legitimate,  but I don&#8217;t know which of his words are true and which is &#8220;marketing&#8221; bull-shit.)</p>
<p>3 &#8211; &#8220;WL postulated the existence of these miraculous super-absorbing plasmon-polariton sheets to “explain” the absence of observable gamma rays.&#8221; Oh.  As there seems to be some miraculous shortage of gamma rays in nearly all of the reported experiments, any valid theory must somehow explain this shortage.  </p>
<p>4 &#8211; &#8220;The purpose of their [NASA's] invention is to improve the WL plasmon polariton sheets.&#8221;  Ah, makes sense.  If WL is bogus then &#8220;plasmon polariton sheets&#8221; is bogus.  If &#8220;plasmon polariton sheets&#8221; is bogus, then the NASA patent, and presumably a lot of their research, is bogus. </p>
<p>&#8216;Goes to why we need a theory that reasonably explains the data, doesn&#8217;t it.  I may not be a scientist, but I do find science, and especially scientific mystery, exciting.</p>
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		<title>By: NASAand BOeng working on LENR Sp[acecraft design/Research - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NASAand BOeng working on LENR Sp[acecraft design/Research - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2012 05:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Derricutt</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13369</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Derricutt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 18:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter - thanks for the encouragement. Your help will be most useful if I think I have succeeded, and I&#039;ll then need an independent lab to validate what I&#039;ve got and prove that I haven&#039;t made any stupid errors. At that point I expect I will ask for your help - thanks again.

I&#039;m pretty certain that Rossi has something now. What is in doubt for me is whether he can control it and thus whether he can make a commercial version. As a hunch, I&#039;d say that he may have it sorted in a couple of years, but since in all probability he also hasn&#039;t got the right theory then he&#039;ll be looking for the effects of modifications in order to change his designs. He may hit on the right combination of conditions (or may have done so) by chance, given enough iterations. Until that time, there will remain room for doubt, and that does work to his advantage. Meantime, through his JONT blog, he&#039;s getting a lot of free ideas from interested people around the world - some will be good ideas he wouldn&#039;t have thought of himself, or may spark valid ideas. It&#039;s really pretty clever, if you think about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; thanks for the encouragement. Your help will be most useful if I think I have succeeded, and I&#8217;ll then need an independent lab to validate what I&#8217;ve got and prove that I haven&#8217;t made any stupid errors. At that point I expect I will ask for your help &#8211; thanks again.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty certain that Rossi has something now. What is in doubt for me is whether he can control it and thus whether he can make a commercial version. As a hunch, I&#8217;d say that he may have it sorted in a couple of years, but since in all probability he also hasn&#8217;t got the right theory then he&#8217;ll be looking for the effects of modifications in order to change his designs. He may hit on the right combination of conditions (or may have done so) by chance, given enough iterations. Until that time, there will remain room for doubt, and that does work to his advantage. Meantime, through his JONT blog, he&#8217;s getting a lot of free ideas from interested people around the world &#8211; some will be good ideas he wouldn&#8217;t have thought of himself, or may spark valid ideas. It&#8217;s really pretty clever, if you think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: pthieber</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13366</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pthieber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 17:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Simon, I agree that there are interesting and unexplained phenomena and I am glad to learn that you plan to start experiments in this field. Let me know if I can help in any way. How much time do you give Rossi before starting to doubt that he has something?  Thank you for your suggestion regarding the Nacho hat, I will keep it in mind. But please remember, I will only need it if WL turn out to be right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Simon, I agree that there are interesting and unexplained phenomena and I am glad to learn that you plan to start experiments in this field. Let me know if I can help in any way. How much time do you give Rossi before starting to doubt that he has something?  Thank you for your suggestion regarding the Nacho hat, I will keep it in mind. But please remember, I will only need it if WL turn out to be right.</p>
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		<title>By: pthieber</title>
		<link>http://nickelpower.org/2012/08/01/boeing-and-nasa-working-together-on-lenr-aircraft-design/#comment-13361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pthieber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickelpower.org/?p=385#comment-13361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bruce,
I will try to answer your questions:

1 - On the proverbial scale from 1 to 10, where are you at regarding the existence of a phenomenon? I&#039;m not asking about any particular researcher&#039;s results, such as Rossi, but are you yet convinced that something is going on beyond scammery?

There are certainly some unexplained phenomena going on beyond scammery. The scammers are very few. There are many well intentioned honest researchers trying to figure this out. If this will ever lead to useful energy production is a different question.

2 - Rossi says that he is getting gamma rays, but that they are being absorbed by his 1/2&quot; lead shield. Every other voice I hear says that that is balderdash. Is his shield or the water/steam doing anything significant in absorbing gamma rays?

½” of lead is totally insufficient to significantly absorb the expected gamma rays. The water and steam do even less. Gamma ray absorption is roughly proportional to the interposed mass per unit area.

3 - Rossi et. al. have been reporting a whole lot of energy from their machines. If their reports are anywhere near accurate wouldn&#039;t they be well cooked by now according to WL? (I have heard some reports of radiation sickness from cavitation devices, but never from &quot;LENR&quot; devices.)

They would certainly be cooked but not according to WL. WL postulated the existence of these miraculous super-absorbing plasmon-polariton sheets to “explain” the absence of observable gamma rays.

4 - You said that &quot;much of [NASA&#039;s] LENR space propulsion dreams [are based] on WL&quot;. Can you explain what aspect of their system presumes WL? (I don&#039;t know if explaining it to those who don&#039;t have a rich foundation of knowledge is at all possible.

It is very simple. That is what they refer to in their videos and in their patent application:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&amp;Sect2=HITOFF&amp;d=PG01&amp;p=1&amp;u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&amp;r=1&amp;f=G&amp;l=50&amp;s1=20110255645.PGNR.

The purpose of their invention is to improve the WL plasmon polariton sheets. Below I copy a few paragraphs from that patent application:

******************************************
As mentioned above, U.S. Pat. No. 7,893,414 issued to Larsen et al. discloses the general relationship link between &quot;surface plasmon polaritons&quot; (SPPs) on a metal hydride&#039;s surface and the resulting heavy electron production at random regions or patches of the surface. Accordingly, U.S. Pat. No. 7,893,414 is incorporated by reference in its entirety.
Unfortunately, such heavy electron production has only occurred in small random regions or patches of sample materials/devices. In terms of energy generation or gamma ray shielding, this limits the predictability and effectiveness of the device. Further, random-patch heavy electron production limits the amount of positive net energy that is produced to limit the efficiency of the device in an energy generation application.
The present invention is a method for making a device that can produce heavy electrons where such heavy electron production can be used in a variety of applications that includes energy generation. In addition, the present invention is the device made from the disclosed method as well as a system that uses the device to produce heavy electrons.
The present invention is adaptable to a variety of physical states/geometries and is scalable in size thereby making it available for energy production in a wide variety of applications (e.g., hand-held and large scale electronics, automobiles, aircraft, surface ships, electric power generation, rockets, etc.)

******************************************
The author of this patent based on WL is Joe Zadowny, the same guy who is now saying “what we are trying to do is a physics experiment to understand if the WL theory and its predictions are at least in part correct”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce,<br />
I will try to answer your questions:</p>
<p>1 &#8211; On the proverbial scale from 1 to 10, where are you at regarding the existence of a phenomenon? I&#8217;m not asking about any particular researcher&#8217;s results, such as Rossi, but are you yet convinced that something is going on beyond scammery?</p>
<p>There are certainly some unexplained phenomena going on beyond scammery. The scammers are very few. There are many well intentioned honest researchers trying to figure this out. If this will ever lead to useful energy production is a different question.</p>
<p>2 &#8211; Rossi says that he is getting gamma rays, but that they are being absorbed by his 1/2&#8243; lead shield. Every other voice I hear says that that is balderdash. Is his shield or the water/steam doing anything significant in absorbing gamma rays?</p>
<p>½” of lead is totally insufficient to significantly absorb the expected gamma rays. The water and steam do even less. Gamma ray absorption is roughly proportional to the interposed mass per unit area.</p>
<p>3 &#8211; Rossi et. al. have been reporting a whole lot of energy from their machines. If their reports are anywhere near accurate wouldn&#8217;t they be well cooked by now according to WL? (I have heard some reports of radiation sickness from cavitation devices, but never from &#8220;LENR&#8221; devices.)</p>
<p>They would certainly be cooked but not according to WL. WL postulated the existence of these miraculous super-absorbing plasmon-polariton sheets to “explain” the absence of observable gamma rays.</p>
<p>4 &#8211; You said that &#8220;much of [NASA's] LENR space propulsion dreams [are based] on WL&#8221;. Can you explain what aspect of their system presumes WL? (I don&#8217;t know if explaining it to those who don&#8217;t have a rich foundation of knowledge is at all possible.</p>
<p>It is very simple. That is what they refer to in their videos and in their patent application:</p>
<p><a href="http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&#038;Sect2=HITOFF&#038;d=PG01&#038;p=1&#038;u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&#038;r=1&#038;f=G&#038;l=50&#038;s1=20110255645.PGNR" rel="nofollow">http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&#038;Sect2=HITOFF&#038;d=PG01&#038;p=1&#038;u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&#038;r=1&#038;f=G&#038;l=50&#038;s1=20110255645.PGNR</a>.</p>
<p>The purpose of their invention is to improve the WL plasmon polariton sheets. Below I copy a few paragraphs from that patent application:</p>
<p>******************************************<br />
As mentioned above, U.S. Pat. No. 7,893,414 issued to Larsen et al. discloses the general relationship link between &#8220;surface plasmon polaritons&#8221; (SPPs) on a metal hydride&#8217;s surface and the resulting heavy electron production at random regions or patches of the surface. Accordingly, U.S. Pat. No. 7,893,414 is incorporated by reference in its entirety.<br />
Unfortunately, such heavy electron production has only occurred in small random regions or patches of sample materials/devices. In terms of energy generation or gamma ray shielding, this limits the predictability and effectiveness of the device. Further, random-patch heavy electron production limits the amount of positive net energy that is produced to limit the efficiency of the device in an energy generation application.<br />
The present invention is a method for making a device that can produce heavy electrons where such heavy electron production can be used in a variety of applications that includes energy generation. In addition, the present invention is the device made from the disclosed method as well as a system that uses the device to produce heavy electrons.<br />
The present invention is adaptable to a variety of physical states/geometries and is scalable in size thereby making it available for energy production in a wide variety of applications (e.g., hand-held and large scale electronics, automobiles, aircraft, surface ships, electric power generation, rockets, etc.)</p>
<p>******************************************<br />
The author of this patent based on WL is Joe Zadowny, the same guy who is now saying “what we are trying to do is a physics experiment to understand if the WL theory and its predictions are at least in part correct”</p>
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