Defkalion terminates their blog

Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product.

http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6909

This is very sad for the blogosphere, and for “the proof” of LENR.   As both Rossi and Defkalion have effectively gone silent, I am begging the scientists involved in this technology, and the entrepreneurs to produce a LENR demonstration device.  This, I think, is the ultimate way to shut the skeptics up.  If every college and university, and every serious hobbyist could get their hands on a working device, the “pathological science” label would have to fall.  The demonstration device need not produce a high COP.  A COP that is reliably measurable is all that is required.

We are in the desert, folks.

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68 Responses to “Defkalion terminates their blog”

  1. Simon Derricutt Says:

    Bruce – Once I’ve got one that works, you’ll get one on your desk to play with.

  2. Brad Arnold Says:

    Those that don’t know talk, and those who do know remain silent.

    Defkalion seems to be at a sensitive point (a crux) in their commercialization strategy. The Greek government officials no doubt had their mind blown by the manifestation of a working LENR generator (whereas previously it was just a hypothetical).

    It wouldn’t surprise me if the high level Greek officials were communicating with other governments trying to form a strategy to deal with this highly destabilizing very cheap and extremely abundant energy technology.

    Will they try to stifle it (hopeless, as LENR Ni-H is too simple a technology), or will they embrace it? I wonder if Greek’s financial situation will affect how the Greek government reacts.

    I am reminded of the story of aluminum, where a metallurgist goes to the king and says only he and the Gods know how to smelt this metal that looks like silver. The king, thinking that it would devalue his hoard of silver has the metallurgist executed. It would be several centuries before the secret of how to smelt aluminum was discovered again.

    There is one thing I’ve learned: when you’ve made a sale, shut up. I endorse Defkalion’s decision.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Brad – thanks, I hadn’t thought of the government telling them to shut up.

      Without any data from Defkalion, all we have left is speculation on what they are doing, so we talk. I agree they can’t stifle LENR, but it may get taxed….

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        Yeah, the lost taxes on oil and gasoline must be replaced eventually. Although, I’m sure government’s main concern is the stability of the financial market. It emerging first in Greece is a real wild card – would those government officials be more loyal to Greece or the EU, is Greece’s economic vulnerability better or worse for government being supportive…on and on – inquioring minds wanna know!

  3. Bob Says:

    Bruce, it is sad for the scientific community, but it sure cuts out the noise. My gut feel is that their tests are going well and they are moving into high gear with customers. Management just decided to shut off the noise, just like Rossi. At some point you quit arguing and just do it.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      How did Rossi shut off the noise? He still there chattering away…….
      1) yes
      2) yes
      3) no
      Warm regards,
      AR

      • Bob Says:

        Iggy, Rossi only responds to what he wants on his blog. He does not allow for dialog or posts on his corporate website. defkalion allowed people to post and they were overrun with the skeptics and criticism. If I was head of defkalion I would not have allowed the forum to take place with its negative comments and criticism, better to shut off the noise so readers of their site don’t see the chatter. Basically they now have the Rossi approach, everything controlled.

      • brucefast Says:

        Ah yes, but Rossi has a secret. He sometimes, well, lies. So his word can’t be trusted. If his word can’t be trusted his responses are effectively not there.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I don’t think Rossi is a liar. He’s more like a scrambling quarterback with a lot of misdirection and head-fakes.

        Favorite toast of Ed Ball, legendary Florida tycoon:
        “Confusion To The Enemy!”

      • brucefast Says:

        “He’s more like a scrambling quarterback with a lot of misdirection and head-fakes.”

        So when a quarterback deliberately misdirects or head-fakes, he isn’t lying?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Give me an example if a Rossi lie.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – A good example of a Rossi lie is the sample of “reacted” core sent for analysis. This was said to have been run for 6 months after which 30% was turned to Copper.

        This is almost certainly a lie on 2 counts:
        1: We are fairly certain that at that time Rossi could not run a reactor for 6 months continuously producing 10kW. His factory would have been somewhat warmer than it appeared to be.
        2: If a nuclear transmutation had occurred, then not only would the Copper have been intimately alloyed with the Nickel, but the Copper would have had more Cu65 than natural Copper and there would have been other higher elements too. This is therefore an obvious fraud.

        As far as I can tell, most entrepreneurs have lied and/or evaded tax and/or bent or broken the law on the way to making a successful product. This is not in itself an indication that the product itself (E-cat in this case) will not actually work, just that Rossi hasn’t yet got all his ducks in a row.

  4. Greg Goble Says:

    Not so far in the distant future, the next generation in fact, will look back on our generation and know that the term energy shortage was a term for unenlightened minds.

    We once observed flight in nature, now we fly…
    We once observed transmutation in nature, now we transmute…
    LENR physics… all the alchemists of antiquity are smiling.

    The Defkalion announcement reinforces my belief that the race to market is on. Enough said… No need to prove… Lotta work to do…
    Suddenly product and market strategy secrecy becomes important.

    • Brad Arnold Says:

      Yeah, it is interesting how the mind works: all those wasted man hours and despoiled environments…man people are going to be in denial until those things start coming off multiple Defkalion assembly lines like sausages. Can you imagine the mind f^ck those “high level” Greek government officials got seeing Defkalion’s outrageous claims proven! I would have loved to be a fly on the wall – the look on their faces would have been priceless.

  5. Anony Mole Says:

    http://www.defkalion-energy.com is unresponsive…

    Likely reasons to have one’s site shut down:
    1) You didn’t pay the internet provider.
    2) You didn’t pay the domain name provider.
    3) Your server failed.
    4) Your building burned down/consumed by a volcano.
    5) You were served a cease and desist.
    6) Your business was shuttered.

    Unlikely reasons one’s site was shut down:
    1) You’re in reorganization (you would let your customers know this).
    2) You’ve gone into heads down to rebuild the site (again you’d let your customers know).
    3) You’re tired of maintaining your site – it’s just a distraction (and you don’t want customers anymore nor to maintain any public relations via the only medium that matters in this day and age).
    4) You’ve been ordered by your government to take down your site (and you won’t inform your customers as they don’t deserve to know about anything you and your government are now doing).

    Number one reason why one’s site is down – someone tripped over the power cord.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Anony – I went and looked at their site – no problems. They have deleted most of the forum, but there is some left and people were still adding stuff last night. At the time I looked, it said 39 people were also looking at it. The comments being added were split between reasonable and patho-skeptic, so they also are not implementing their stated policy of removing derogatory comments (yet).

      Maybe this will change, but at the moment it is more likely a net problem because of maybe overload between the US and Europe. But don’t start reading too much into a glitch on servers.

      • Anony Mole Says:

        I keep trying to get to http://www.defkalion-energy.com/ without success. Rarely does my provider have issues. Ping does not return a reply from their server. You’re not looking at cached content? Well, I can’t explain why I can’t get there. I can get here…

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Anony – just tried it again by clicking on your link. I went through to the forum, and currently 22 users online. The last post is stated as 3:39pm today, 1st March, though it’s now 1am 2nd March there. I presume this is not a cache phantom.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Nice lists Anony Mole which are certainly worth considering…
      meanwhile the race to the marketplace is on… fill’er up please!

  6. Craig Binns Says:

    “The Defkalion announcement reinforces my belief that the race to market is on. Enough said… No need to prove… Lotta work to do…Suddenly product and market strategy secrecy becomes important.”

    Go back and read what you were all writing a couple of days ago! “Patho”-what? No games and blogs, no clowns and snakes. The only thing you gonna see is hillbillies and Australian outback farmers being separated from their hard earned dosh. Lotta work to do!

    “We once observed flight in nature, now we fly.” Now we get swindled. We never once observed CF in nature even one little itsy bitsy time, cos if nickel turned into copper all our goddam five cent pieces would turn into pennies!

    Hey; I know a guy in Nigeria who got ten million Mongolian tugriks in a frozen bank account. Just send me your credit card, your cheque book and your personal identification number to release all this wampum, and I’ll split it with you fifty fifty. My account’s in the Central Bank of Montenegro, and I’ll pay you in Greek drachmas. No, because you’re my buddies I gonna cut you a special deal; give you a licence to sell cold fusion machines in Kamchatka. Reinforce your belief, ‘cos you can’t lose! ‘Nuff said! The race to market is on!

    From Defkalion’s website: ‘Socrates once said that “whenever people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblances to that truth.” Defkalion is not responsible for people who read the internet’s unverified sources, create impressions and new truths, eventually ending up in confusion.’

    Yep. Socrates once said that. (That was before Socrates got fed a dose of hemlock – ancient Greek cultural equivalent of the needle. Or Old Sparky.) It’s quoted by Al Gore in his “Assault On Reason” (2008), you’ll be interested to know, which is where I bet the crooks at Defkalion got it. I just can’t believe they sit up at night reading Platonic dialogues in ancient Attic Greek. But if you want to swindle Americans, Gore’s your man. Brainy guy, Gore.

    But there is in fact some doubt whether either Socrates or PT Barnum ever in fact said, “There’s a sucker born every minute”. From wiki:

    ‘The earliest appearance of the phrase in print is in the 1885 biography of confidence man Hungry Joe, The Life of Hungry Joe, King of the Bunco Men. Another early appearance is in Opie Read’s 1898 novel A Yankee from the West. According to David W. Maurer, writing in The Big Con (1940), there was a similar saying amongst con men: “There’s a mark born every minute, and one to trim ‘em and one to knock ‘em”. Here ‘trim’ means to rip off, and ‘knock’ means to persuade away from a scam. The meaning is that there is no shortage of new victims, nor of con men, nor of honest men.’

    Dunno about the no shortage of honest men. No shortage of bunco men, that’s for sure! Gotta stop now. Someone tripped over my power cord. Warm regards, Craig.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – Defkalion state that they are not asking anyone for money – they have enough. Those hillbillies and farmers will only have to pay when they go buy a working machine – it won’t be free, after all. If it doesn’t work then they’ll send it back and (hopefully) get their money back, but Defkalion won’t be able to sell many machines before such failures get publicised (the net is very very quick at doing that) and they then wouldn’t sell any more.
      Since you have read their website, you have also read their statement, so you know this already.

      Confusion on the net is not new. It is much the same as standing in the market-place of a big city and discussing things with passers-by. After a while, if you see the same people and their discussions seem good, you place a bit more reliance on them, but you would be a fool to believe everybody. Most of the time you won’t know someone’s real name (or sex in the case of MaryYugo) or their degree of real knowledge or delusions. This places more of a need on you to understand your own limits of knowledge, and of what is hidden from you either deliberately or by accident.

      Those of us who have worked in start-ups and been through the process of bringing a new product to market (I’ve done that) understand the difficulties and the flexible timescale. We also understand the wish to tell everyone to “shut the f*ck up and let me get on with my work” (I’ve done that, too).

      In the meantime, it’s not costing you any money at all. OK, the delay is costing everybody, but it is not definable, and they are probably doing things as fast as they can.

      LENR is real, Rossi’s and Defkalion’s technologies are real, and the only thing to doubt is whether they have controlled it enough to achieve what they are claiming for it, and whether they can indeed make a production version fast enough to avoid the next financial depression.

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Craig Binns, We have a host of elements, all of which have been transmuted thru nature… which we are still wondering the exact process by which they have come to be. Hence science… Einstein… physics… etc…

    • Brad Arnold Says:

      Craig,

      It always amazes me that cynics are ready to believe the most outlandish and unlikely pessimistic things, but disregard other more optomistic material. I suggest you read this article (which you will probably irrationally dismiss because it is contrary to what your gut is telling you):

      http://pesn.com/2012/02/13/9602039_Hope_from_Athens_found_in_Cold_Fusion/

  7. Craig Binns Says:

    Simon, If Defkalion have enough it’s because of their licensing deals, presumably. Now they’re shutting down their site. Their physical address is in no prominent place. Where is their factory? Where are their material assets, like thousands of valuable energy machines? Do any such exist? Vague blueprints they possess; that we know.

    OK, they have raised enough money. Will we ever hear from them again? One may hope so, at least.

    Is it sceptics who are “pathological” now, do you think, or believers?

    • Greg Goble Says:

      never enough money

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – Defkalion say that their licensing deals are not money-up-front, but to be paid when the devices are for sale. This may or may not be true – no other verifications of these statements, but nobody with such a deal has stepped forward to say they are lying. They won’t have thousands of machines built yet, since they have not gone through approvals yet. If you were in their position, would you make a new factory and set up the lines (takes at least a year if money is no object) or go to a manufacturer who already has lines set up that could build what you want? The second option is faster, cheaper and far more reliable.

      The site and its forum is not shut down – they have just removed the insulting posts. See http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics that I’ve just looked at.

      You could be right, but my bet is that you are not. Have a bit more hope – it doesn’t cost you anything and will make you healthier.

    • brucefast Says:

      Craig “…it’s because of their licensing deals, presumably.”

      Well, lets see, Defkalion developed their relationship with Rossi BECAUSE THEY HAD MONEY! If you look at their board of directors, it looks like people WITH MONEY! Could it be that they have money because THEY ARE RICH? Nope, they must have received money by nefarious means. Everything is so.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Brucefast, not very convincing. None of the CVs are those of corporate plutocrats. So who knows what money they’ve got? However I take it for granted that the purpose of setting up the company was to make money, and that income from licence sales was one of the intended sources. If so, the wealth of the board members is irrelevant to my argument.

        If they developed a relationship with Rossi they obviously had no haughty principles about people pursuing filthy lucre. Nobody has suggested that Rossi is anything other than infatuated with money. Most convicted gold smugglers are of that inclination.

      • brucefast Says:

        Craig,
        There are two kinds of people in this world those who need money, and those who want money (well, a third, but they are few and far between). Those who want money aren’t necessarily in that much of a hurry. Your interpretation makes it clear that you think like one in the “those who need money” camp.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Brucefast

        I don’t know if the Defkalion people need money or just want money, but I assume that they’re in a greater hurry to obtain it than they are to publicise the protocols of, participants in, or results from, their tests.

        If such tests ever took place, that is.

      • brucefast Says:

        Craig, “but I assume that…”
        Why the assumption? Is there any evidence that supports your assumption? Do you have evidence of anyone who has given Defkalion money?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Too many assumptions/presumptions and not enough facts. It’s not polite, and can lead to legal problems, if you accuse people of lying or fraud without pretty solid proof that stands up in court. It also gets a bit boring after a while.

        In the UK we consider people innocent until proved guilty (except for footballers and politicians, of course) and currently I’ve seen no evidence that Defkalion have taken money from any investor. They do state this, and that they are risking only their own money in the business. Unless anyone has proof to the contrary, I’d suggest we take their word for it. This of course would also mean that it’s not a scam, since there’s no-one losing money if it doesn’t work EXCEPT Defkalion themselves.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Simon, have you ever considered starting your own “Simon Says” blog?

      • brucefast Says:

        And if Simon doesn’t say it, we shouldn’t believe it :-?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – writing works better. I can go back and correct things. Running a blog would take too much time, anyway, and I doubt if anyone would look at it. I’ll stick to engineering and physics.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Brucefast, Simon: Re your March 1st posts above. The suggestion that Defkalion may receive money in advance of delivery has been made more than once, and by persons familiar to you at that.

        Leaving aside Stremmenos’s accusation of lying and megalomania, and Rossi’s accusations of theft of intellectual property, we have these statements, both made on Dec 1st last year:

        Andrea Rossi 01 Dec 2011: WARNING: SOMEBODY IS ON THE ROAD SAYING THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IN STEALING OUR TECHNOLOGY ( WHOSE PATENT HAS BEEN GRANTED IN ITALY AND IS PENDING IN THE WORLD) AND ARE TRYING TO SELL A MOCK UP … PROBABLY THIS IS A STUNT AIMED TO COLLECT MONEY FROM UNCAUTIOUS BUYERS.

        http://ecatnews.com/?p=1530 01 Dec 2001 “The deal is that 500K Euros are placed in Escrow until the final product is successfully tested … It is not clear if that stage has been completed for the 19 companies in question. It is possible that such a demo was conducted on a rough prototype and that this is distinct from the final acceptance of the device they are to make. If true, that would mean that the price of curiosity was a low-risk punt with 500K Euros.”

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Craig – you suffer from selective quoting, so I’ll selectively quote from the Ny Teknik article quoted in the ecatnews article you pointed to above:
        “No money has yet changed hands. This may imply that proof has not yet been supplied (one possible interpretation). The deal is that 500K Euros are placed in Escrow until the final product is successfully tested. At that time, the agreement becomes active.”

        Reading (again) the rest of the article, it basically says that Defkalion receive no money until they have proved the technology. At that point, the licensees can walk away and not continue if they so wish, otherwise they will pay half the money for the technology and the other half when they are producing devices.

        So – no money until a definitive demonstration of a functioning device. Is that the way a scam operates? If there is no functioning device, then Defkalion gets no money. I would expect that the 19 companies who are in this deal will require real scientific proof before committing to build the things, and maybe even build their own one to test it themselves. Caveat emptor!

  8. Greg Goble Says:

    Can you fly?

  9. Craig Binns Says:

    Greg

    Have a look at http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com/ I like it.

    My favourite among your rhetorical flourishes was the one about the smiling alchemists. In fact many of them were smiling, not now but then, cos they had a gold multiplying scam going, whereby some rich simpleton handed them gold and they handed back a larger amount of dross. By the time it was assayed, the alchemists were in the next kingdom. Germany was good for this, because it was divided into dozens of kingdoms.

    King Augustus of Saxony got stung this way. In a fit of indignation he locked the alchemist in his laboratory in the palace with his furnaces and told him – gold or else. He got the “else”, because while locked up the alchemist did some experiments on high temperature firing of ceramics and cracked the longstanding mystery of Chinese porcelain manufacture. He was spared by a grateful King! Dresden china became all the rage.

    Investors in Rossi and Defskamion won’t be so lucky!

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Thak you

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Craig Binns,
      A few bad apples does not spoil Newton…

      Who are your favorite alchemists of old, can you name a few who were not charlatans… or not? My favorite grandchild of ancient alchemy is the cute and adorable scientific method that we so enjoy watching romping about in the art of LENR science today,

      Understanding is advanced by such antics. Leading to the products we all enjoy today… name a few… think hard,,, think harder… wipe out! I thank and honor all the inquisitive minds that studied alchemey and left us the legacy of the periodical table, newtonian physics, and the modern scientific method.

      I’m sure Craig Binns doffed his cap for a moment together on this. Silence is less than more words. A proven scientific fact honoring all who led us to where we are now… Discovery! Know it all or not.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Greg, no indeed. The inventor of porcelain was a sort of “bad apple”. From his wiki CV: “Böttger was born in Schleiz, Thuringia. Around 1700, an apprentice chemist with the pharmacist Zorn in Berlin, he locked himself up to discover in private the “Alltinktur”, a substance with which any disease could be cured and base metals converted into gold.” About as attractive then as the idea of free energy is now.

        So far so bad, such was the state of scientific knowledge at the time! But he was an excellent ceramicist, and used his ingenuity to escape from punishment by experimenting with mixtures of kaolin and alabaster. The rest is history. And Meissen porcelain. 

        Rossi is like the first part of Böttger. Very like! Gold shenanigans and stuff. But will he save himself with a valuable invention, and become a hero? Frankly I doubt it. The King of Saxony will come and lock him up.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Twas not an apple but a fig that gave Newton his idea, hence his nickname.

  10. Craig Binns Says:

    Greg, you’re more than welcome. Let us also recall what Hank Mills reported last October, which turns out in all probability to have been prophetic.

    “On October 11th, 2011, [Prof Christos] Stremmenos [former Defkalion board member] posted a statement to the blog, slamming Defkalion on many accounts. He accuses them of lying, making false accusations, and being afflicted with the mental pathology of megalomania.

    “Being so close to the company, Stremmenos’s statements are particularly alarming. Coming from anyone else, the statements would be less concerning. But if anyone should know what Defkalion has been up to and their internal affairs, it is him.”

    • Greg Goble Says:

      Thank you again

    • Greg Goble Says:

      [Prof Christos] Stremmenos possibly was refering to Defkalion being afflicted with the mental pathology of megalomania, i,e, Rossi needs us but we don’t need Rossi. Now they are competitors (tellingly) locked in legal combat. I have excellent seating on the sidelines awaiting the unfoldment of the battle, the story of which will soon be told.

  11. David Says:

    Alternatively forum to Defkalion.

    Communicate in your own language. http://www.defkalion.se

  12. quax Says:

    Now that Defkalion has gone dark I put a survey up to gauge the mood of the LENR community towards this company.

    If you may be so inclined hop over to http://hotandcoldfusion.wordpress.com and fill it out.

    Should only take 2 minutes. The poll will be open for a week and the results published the following one.

  13. Bernie Koppenhofer Says:

    After reading some of these comments I think Rossi should shut down his site too. This is a man who is trying to communicate with the general public while he is creating a revolution in energy. He is being criticized for not giving away his intellectual property before his process has a patent, being a scammer, being a liar and worse. Why should he put up with it? We are going to look back on the communication with Rossi on his site as a rare opportunity.

  14. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    “G’Day, I was JUST in Athens and met with representatives of Defkalion. They told me that they were going to begin selling their LENR device this July 2012. I was shown their R&D model which just starts with a flick of the switch. It also turns off with a just a flick of the same switch. They have their model running at 250degc. They can get their LENR to run over 350degc (dry steam), but they need something more than the current fluid that they are using. Rossi has problem shutting down his E-CAT. Rossi is a “one-man-band” and Defkalion has 27 scientists.

    Several groups have come to see them including NASA. They have taken down their blog on their website to enable their 27 scientists to just concentrate on their work to finalize a commercial LENR. Each unit will have as many as five (5ea) LENRs, each running at 5kw. I went there to investigate possible investment. They only want BIG investors. They have MANY OEM (original equipment manufacturers) already on board internationally. They intend to manufacture 300,000 units in the first year. It will cost only 30 Euros/year to operate each LENR device

    They have all the European certificates. Everyone else in the world recognises the EU certificates, except the United States. Defkalion had decided the US is in the ‘too-hard-basket’ and won’t manufacture or sell to the US. The units will be monitored via mobile telephone or internet to insure their proper operation.

    I was told that they were trying to actually see what happens in their device with some glass with a melting point of 1500degc. They saw it light up like the sun and then it melted the glass. This just took a second or two. I was told what their working theory was, but they really don’t know what is going on. They have brought in several academics with a myraid of explanations.

    This looks like a real go’er. It will change the world. I’m sorry for not disclosing more. I was told specifics, but was asked to keep them confidential.

    These are exciting times. The whole world awaits. Life is about to change.

    Oh yes, I went to Greece, just to go island hopping for a week. I was on the 1st boat of the season. I would suggest May or September. DO NOT GO in August! The islands double in population in August and it’s TOO HOT and windy. Lovely place with lovely people!

    Regards, Woomera”
    http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/cold-fusion/51623?page=4#comments

    • Bob Says:

      If this is true, this is the best news I have heard in a long time. July isn’t that far away. Being it won’t be on sale in the US, I wonder if I could drive to Canada and get one. May be a bit sticky at the border, but might be worth the try.
      Does Canada support EU certifications?

      • alaincoe Says:

        defkalion according to this news abandon US market (to be honest I understand since this market is too much protectionist, and foreign corp cannot work in US, despite hypocritical government words).

        “Defkalion had decided the US is in the ‘too-hard-basket’ and won’t manufacture or sell to the US. “

      • Bob Says:

        I agree and its such a shame, it will once again handicap us in the world markets. I have very grave concerns that Rossi will get approval. It may not happen until it takes off in the rest of the world and then its too late for any business or competitive edge.

      • brucefast Says:

        My understanding is that a Canadian is invited to plug in anything with the following certifications: CSA (Canadian Standards Association), UL, ULc (U.L. Canadian). I do not believe that European certification qualifies in Canada.

        It’ll be another cooold winder for me unless Rossi gets past the noise.

      • Bob Says:

        Thanks Bruce! Rossi has stated that he is making good progress on certification and that he may soon get permission to give the name and details of his 1 MW customer. All hopeful words, but its not worth much other than giving a little hope.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – what are the rules on something you build yourself as a kit? Does this need any UL-type approvals? This may in fact entail building a small outhouse to keep it in to keep your insurers happy, but may be worth it anyway.

      • brucefast Says:

        There is a lot of flexibility for kit builders. Approval is not required. (I don’t know what happens if a kit produces an insurable event.)

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        The shipping crate could state:

        contents: Grecian Urn Kit

  15. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    I bet the hangup on US certification is Def’s bottled hydrogen.

    And I bet that the reason the E-Cat is slow to shutdown is due to its rumored metal hydride. With bottled hydrogen you simply close the valve. With hydride, I guess you have to let it cool to a sub-critical temperature or maybe switch off the frequency generator.

    • Bob Says:

      There is a lot of speculation that defkalion uses electromagnets to turn off the reaction. Sparks to turn it on and electromagnets to turn it off. Several of the Physics blogs believe this to be the case. This is how they control the high temperature range from running out of control.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Interesting, would that be like a spark from a spark-plug?

      • Bob Says:

        Yes, that and wire. There was a very interesting discussion on the Vortex regarding this whole subject as well as discussion on building a catalyzer. Here are the entry points on the discussions I believe are relevant.

        http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg64382.html

        and

        http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg64332.html

        I think these are the two key links to read through. If your not familiar with the vortex the next link is on the bottom of the page, just keep following them down

        JoJo is trying to make a system and is getting great advice from a lot of people, Axil in particular is very knowledgeable.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Yes, I do try to follow vortex but it’s usually way over my head. It was vortex when I read about today’s visitor to Defkalion. I guess I missed the thread about Def’s technique for starting and stopping its reactor.

      • Bob Says:

        The Rydberg discussion is talking about how to build an E-Cat and in that discussion they talk about how to energize the Rydberg material. They have some pretty good core concepts developing. They believe that defkalion may work that way, as well as Rossi and the Frequency generator is just used to charge the spark. they believe that they quench the reaction by the electromagnetic field. The defkalion pulsed methodology is done this way in their opinion. They feel that this gives them very good control and lets them work at the upper temperature limits as they can control it. They believe Rossi energizes this way, but does not quench the reaction, so he has to run at low tempratures to control the reaction. One guy claimed Rossi ran a wire down the center of his core, but I can’t find any Rossi statement confirming this.

        Their core discussion weaves in and out of different subjects, so you almost have to glance at them all. It sounds like there are numerous guys replicating and that’s a good thing.

  16. Hildegard Says:

    Awesome post.

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