Govt. test of Defkalion — no details.

Ok so I’m becoming a bit cynical.  Craig, you’re getting to me, or something.

Here’s the total news:

Tests with the presence of high level Government officials have been concluded. Opinions and results were very positive.
Announcements will be made upon mutual agreements, at a time yet to be defined.
Tests continue with international Authorities in the coming weeks.

That’s all there is, there isn’t any more.

Maybe its a Greek thing, or maybe government officials think that delaying results will make them look more credible or something.  However, this is a far sight from “we’ll do webcam if they let us”.

Alas, I haven’t had a new post for a while, and the other threads are getting lanky, so maybe its time to report, um, nothing.

<— To main blog

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167 Responses to “Govt. test of Defkalion — no details.”

  1. Craig Binns Says:

    Sorry about this! I wanted to know the outcome too. What can be going on? Defkalion surely can’t lie about government involvement, if it is in fact happening. But what does “international Authorities” mean?

  2. Roger Bird Says:

    Remember that these Defkalion guys are geeks (no social skills, like Craig Binns), they don’t even speak English as their first language, and they may even enjoy keeping us in suspense. Maybe they think that the cheering will be louder when confirmation actually happens. It is 9:40 P.M. in Athens, so we probably won’t be getting any more news today for about 9 hours, at which time we will be getting ready to go to bed.

  3. Craig Binns Says:

    Roger, you mean that after telling us tests will last for weeks, Defkalion are going to make an announcement tomorrow at 6 am Athens time, because Greek govt officials like keeping us in suspense?

    We’ll soon know, of course, but I have my doubts about this scenario.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      My theory that they don’t give a fig what we experience with our craving for certainty seems more and more right to me. We will find out when they get damn good and ready to tell us. Or, they won’t tell us and in 6 months we will all look back and have a big laugh.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        If you will be able to laugh in these circumstances, I will express my admiration. It is I, the psychosceptic, who should be laughing. But I’m too polite.

        For his part, Rossi is now talking about 12-18 months. But that’ll slip, mark my words.

        All this is pure “Blacklight”.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig Binns,

        I doubt if Blacklight got this kind of attention. And anyway, Blacklight is not dead, yet.

        Anyone who did not get proof positive that the machine works and gave any of these people money deserve to lose their money.


      • Craig Binns Says:


        If it isn’t dead, Blacklight is at best an “undead” zombie.

        What’s this about proof positive? Not long ago you were calling people dumba$$ pathoskeptics if they had the audacity to ask for decent evidence, let alone proof!

        Now you’re saying to the suckers: not my fault.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Not true. One does not need proof positive to be optimistic, even VERY optimistic. I am still very optimistic. But we still need proof positive. You mistake those who are very optimistic with true believers. It ain’t so. It is looking good, but we do not have positive proof. When the Greek government says that it is real, I probably will still wait for another tester to also say that it is real before I take my family out to dinner to celebrate.

  4. Craig Binns Says:

    I fear the geeks when they come not bearing gifts! If I may paraphrase Virgil.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I’ve never lost any serious money on energy schemes. I spent $40 to put me at the head of the line to buy some free energy device and to receive their newsletters. I was very skeptical and wasn’t disappointed. It was worth $40 in entertainment value.

      I attended a free Dennis Lee show in Little Rock with a couple of mechanic friends and it was very entertaining. Lee didn’t ask for any investments and only sold a few books and videos….not enough to pay his expenses. I never figured his angle unless he was building a sucker list. He demonstrated a huge “over-unity” generator but failed to prove anything to me. The generator had large exposed coils and stators. The machine looked like it would have cost hundreds of thousand$ to build. He also demonstrated a “Brown’s Gas” torch/welder. After the show he demonstrated some device to attach to your auto which converted water to fuel, but I didn’t hang around for that.

      I did buy some kind of magnet from my auto repair shop that was supposed to energize my vehicle but I could never notice any difference in performance.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        It is nice to not be in a position of authority; you don’t have to worry about your reputation. I used to go the Whole Life Expos in San Francisco years ago with my best friend and had a blast. Of course, the difference is the you didn’t believe Dennis Lee and I believe many of the things I saw at the Whole Life Expos, and I still do. But they never got much of my money. (:->)

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – the water is very hard here and so I got some of those clamp-on magnets for the water pipes. I myself haven’t noticed any difference. The water is still hard. However, in my mum’s flat (fed by the same water but no magnets) the toilet cistern does seem to get a lot more limescale in it than mine does. So maybe they work – to some extent.

        I also read about a company selling magnetic fuel conditioners. They claim that, for both central heating and cars, it improves the cleanliness of the burn. I haven’t tried this on my car (steel diesel pipes) but there’s a possibility it would work. I think the installation of them is important – the fuel needs to pass through a long, strong magnetic field, so for my engine I’d need 4 units to joint into the injector pipes or use copper ones. A bit expensive, and even if it worked the payback would be a while.

        Some of these crazy ideas are real, though sorting the good ones from the scams takes a fair bit of work.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Also beware of Scotts bearing scoffs….and Greeks bearing grifts.

  5. Bob Says:

    I read this and was disappointed, but expected it once it was known that the Greek government was the first testing party. Governments never do ANYTHING in a timely fashion and every word needs to be carefully parsed, it could affect their next election.

    I’m hopping for a release by the end of the week, but even that may be optimistic with government. I just hope the next one in the queue will let their name be known and will put out timely data. Hope it isn’t NASA, DARPA or such, else we will get the same results. We need a real company to step up, put their name on it and let the data fall where it may.

    I still have a strong belief it is real, but the caution left over from the F-P demise sure has left a big hangover. I know from some of my contacts that big companies are kicking a lot of tires, but are paranoid about getting their name mentioned. I find the paranoia just amazing, but I was never a marketing genius.

  6. Simon Derricutt Says:

    I think I predicted at least a week, probably two before we hear the results. I had thought they would give a bit more information than they have, though. Who did it, for example. Some details of when the results will be published. If it was government people it could of course take months to get a report.

    Nice pun, Craig, though I’m surprised Roger didn’t get there first.

    On this string we’ll be talking about nothing for a while….

  7. Anony Mole Says:

    A little insight on the Greek can be had from “Boomerang : travels in the new third world” – Michael Lewis. And I do mean a little. But if even that little bit is representative, I think that the Greek are in for a really tough time. Bottom line on the Greek, and this is a blatant stereotype mind you, is that the Greek are entitlement oriented and fully expect the state to support them. This is undoubtedly an erroneous generalization but if even a fraction of it holds truth, then we may not be able to believe much of what comes out of any reports forthcoming from last Friday’s tests. There may be so much spin applied that paints the results in such a way that an angelic glow beings to radiate from Athens. This is being facetious I know, still, I think we may need to wait for the second team to test and report before we jump to conclusions (or collusions as the case may be).

    • Bob Norman Says:

      If I was defkalion, I would have prioritized who ran the tests in which order by who would step up and tell who they were and be “first to Publish”. All the big government entities are slow and guarded, hope we don’t have a string of them.

      • brucefast Says:

        I personally understand the patriotism that would see the Greek government going first. If the Greek government is slow to formalize their data, I really hope that Defkallion doesn’t hold everything else up in the name of patriotism.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      The Greeks seemed pretty industrious when I visited in ’80. Not as friendly as the Germans but more friendly than the French. A very beautiful country. Dazzling bright sun. Ancient ruins everywhere. Walk across a vacant lot and you’ll notice you’re walking on shards of ancient fluted pillars and millstones. The banks amazed me how backward and inefficient they were. To buy $100 worth of drachma the bank president would handle the transaction, using an old mechanical calculator. The Temple of Delphi was the most beautiful scene with the sea about a thousand feet below.

      Egypt was quite primitive. Camels walking around loose in Cairo. Farmers plowing with wooden plowshears pulled by an ox. Egypt’s main money-maker was tourism and everyone is afraid to visit now. No way could I believe that the ancient wonders of the pyramids and other amazing structures were built by such a backward people.

  8. Bob Says:

    An update

    • brucefast Says:

      thanks for the link.
      However it adds very little to our established knowledge base. The following is news to me however:

      On February 20, 2012 Rossi performed a demonstration to show the actual level of development. Among the participants was chemist Roland Pettersson, retired Associate Professor from the University of Uppsala, who also attended a test of Rossi’s E-cat on 6 October 2011.

      Roland Pettersson told Ny Teknik that the system was now much more stable. A new set of control electronics was used and the system was started just pushing a button. However, no energy measurement was performed.

      • Bob Says:

        That’s why I put it up, the defkalion stuff was nothing, except they started the test on Monday, which wasn’t reported until know. They sure do hide the details from a waiting audience.

        They did say that two testers were American, assuming the rest was Europe and Asia. I hadn’t heard that either.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        We may be an audience, but they are not performing for us.

      • Bob Says:

        Well then, I just won’t clap, I’ll show them. LOL

  9. Craig Binns Says:


    “No way could I believe that the ancient wonders of the pyramids and other amazing structures were built by such a backward people.”

    So who built them? An ancient tribe of pure Aryans led by Dr Mengele?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Iggy needs to get used to the idea the cultures and nations rise and fall.

      The next question is: Is America rising or is it falling?

      • Bob Says:

        America is falling right now, but as soon as Obama is voted out it will turn around.

      • brucefast Says:

        Bob, I wish I were as confident as you. Neither party has a platform that can come close to rescuing the current economic situation. The only guy that stands a chance of slowing down the debt leak is Ron Paul. However, he’s rather wierd, and he ain’t gettin’ in anyway.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I agree that Ron Paul has the best ideas overall, but he’s not a proven leader. Paul could never get Congress to go along with his ideas. Romney is the only proven executive and while he’s too liberal for me on many issues, I think he’s the best candidate of the field.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I agree with Iggy. Although I am learning to hate the federal government, I don’t see Paul getting in. And Romney is a really good person (I never met a Mormon I didn’t like.) and a great executive, and he is at least way to the right of ObaMao.

        Paul’s numbers have held very steady for the entire campaign, so I don’t see that changing. And he is total mush on Iran. Just because the federal government and the news media lies to us often does not mean that they lie to us all of the time. And it is in Obama’s interest for the mainstream media to downplay Iran, and they aren’t doing it. They can’t downplay Iran because the situation is too scary.

      • Bob Says:

        Bruce, you caught me fibbing, I think your write, the end game is pretty shaky whoever leads us. Note sure we aren’t in so far we can recover. I was just expressing my total disgust at Obama and his push for socialism. No mater who leads I expect a crash that will make the depression look like good times.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      “So who built them?”

      At the approximate time the Egyptian pyramids were built there were other examples of high tech construction scattered in many parts of the world. I saw stone building blocks that modern technology could not handle.

      I don’t know who the builders were but they were surely not the Egyptians and probably not human.

      This sphere was found deep in a South African mine i sediment over 3 billion years old.

      Hundreds of these stone spheres have been found in Costa Rica’s jungle.

  10. Craig Binns Says:


    If you can swallow the “beings from space built Stonehenge” stuff churned out by lunatics and book-touting swindlers, believing in Rossi and Defkalion must be soooooo easy!

    The pyramids were built by a human culture. We know what language was spoken in the Egyptian Old Kingdom, because we have inscriptions from the time. It was Martian. Sorry, that was a joke: it was ancient Egyptian. A later form of that language is still used as the liturgical language of the Egyptian Christian Church. Egyptian Christans are human.

    Your ar$e is more probably “not human” than were the builders of the structures of ancient times.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig Binns, that post will convince Iggy, I’m sure.

      Seriously, your appeal to the ancient Egyptian language is really very persuasive.

      If extraterrestrials did the pyramids, how did they get here from even the nearest star? They must have been awfully freaking lonely for an awfully freaking long time. And I am not even the kind of guy that suffers from loneliness. But it would take at least 1000 years to get here. Talk about a difficult deployment.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Roger, I hope my appeal is convincing. Dear God, we even have “workmen’s graffitti” from within the Great Pyramid. Google this up. “Kilroy was here” stuff. The nutcases who propose extraterrestrials as pyramid builders and so on, have to assert that these writings are forgeries, inserted into the pyramid by 19th century archaeologists.

        We can now decipher the Maya inscriptions, on huge monuments, and they are written in language similar to that spoken in the area today.

        The forgery notion is conspiracy theory stuff, much like what we find sustaining the free energy scams, about Big Energy preventing poor Rossi from doing anything more than collecting money from suckers. Once he tries to produce the goods, the One World Conspiracy steps in and stops him.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig Binns, I know what you are saying about people using conspiracy theories. Even if the theories are true, being against something bad does not make a person good. I have seen that so much in the alternative healing arena. Just because doctors are blind to natural healing (and they are) or the FDA is a bunch of dirt bags (and they are) does not mean that the guy hawking XYZ and distinguishing himself from doctors and the FDA is a reliable or good person or that XYZ is a good product. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen this. And sometimes XYZ is a good product, but it may not be good enough for me to shell out my money, but many people get caught by the opposition to the bad guys.

        However, I don’t recall Rossi using conspiracy theories even once to promote or defend his “product” (whether real or not is yet to be determined).

  11. Craig Binns Says:

    Iggy, your S African sphere. One question, what size is it? (The fact we are not told proves the “evidence” is a scam. Its a bit like someone claiming COP 10, but neglecting to tell us the output is milliwatts!) If it’s small, it’s an impact feature shaped by passing through the atmosphere – the same way they make bird shot by pouring molten lead through a sieve, and letting it cool in mid air.

    It surely wasn’t made by human beings, because our ancestors 3 bn years ago were pond slime.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Pond slime, you mean like calling someone a crook without proof, that kind of pond slime?

      Just kidding.

      On this issue of the alien visitors, I am mostly on your side Craig Binns. I just can’t get over the time frame of getting here. And if they were in too much of a hurry, the danger of a speck of dust (of which there are ka-jillion to the k-jillion power) would be tremendous.

      Here we go, leaving you behind, Craig…I believe that the alien abductions are some kind of astral or etheric event, which is in their heads or it is objective, either way.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        The one found in 3-billion-year old muck looks to be placed on cotton or at most corduroy. That sizes it at less than a cm and so it is probably a bead or a playing-counter (such a Go). Just because it was found there doesn’t mean it was there all the time – it certainly looks banded like a bead, and could have been lost by someone and eaten by a toad who then buried himself in the muck to get away from people. Or invent a different way to get it that deep.

        The existence or not of aliens and of visitations has no reasonable proof. We can’t decide one way or another. It seems reasonable to assume that the people back in prehistory (from H. sapiens onward, at least) were pretty well as intelligent as us. Their knowledge may have been high, too. We can only tell what we have evidence of, and then it is educated guesses if no written sources survived. So for whatever reason, those strange things may have been made by humans for some possibly religious reason. You know they don’t often make sense. Until you shake hands with an alien, don’t believe in them. Even then, it might be a Jackass prank.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I think the spheres are from the size of a golf ball to fist size. Yes, scientist say they are natural but those rings look ornamental to me.

      The spheres remind me of Saturn’s moon, Lapetus.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Iggy, “Iapetus”. This moon is larger than a golf ball.

        Give me a source for the sphere size. Why is the size not given in the source you linked to? Scientists are right about the natural origin. How the spheres “look to you” is of little moment.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        “How the spheres “look to you” is of little moment.” <=== An example of one of the reasons why sane and balanced people hate patho-skeptics. It is akin to the attitude that they have a monopoly of truth. It is dismissive of other people's experience. It is rude. It ignores that fact that ALL science is a matter of connecting the dots. It is an attitude that rarely if ever discovers something new. This, Craig, is another example of your social/emotional retardation.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      • Roger Bird Says:

        That is interesting, Iggy. I like the straight line. I wish that there were more pictures and that they were clearer.

        If, and I say, if, these were really dug out of 3 billion year old deposits, then they would NEVER be believed by mainstream science. And, of course, conservative religious would never believe that the deposits were 3 billion years old.

        People have their little boxes. They like their little boxes. It makes them feel secure. Even science oriented people have their little boxes. Patho-skeptics are the defenders of science boxes.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        And I forgot, all science and all discovery begins with some observation that “looks like”.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Of course Craig Binns will dismiss his rudeness as being of “little moment” or even defend himself. This is why patho-skeptics are stuck at stupid, socially and emotionally speaking. They never learn. And being stone atheists, they won’t be accepting Jesus anytime soon. It is like an entire lifetime, stagnating, wasting good air. A life without emotional warmth and contact with other people. It is sad.

  12. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Not quite as mysterious but still a puzzle…

    Mysterious Metallic Space Ball Falls to Earth in Africa, Baffling Authorities
    If you’re missing a space ball, please contact Namibia

  13. Craig Binns Says:

    I looked it up, and as I think I remembered the spheres are from a junk book called “Forbidden Archaeology” which is full of nonsense. I read it many years ago, and was taken by the fact that no sizes were given, so I had no idea what they looked like? Peas? Bird shot? Footballs? These ones are, seemingly, cm size concretions. For regular shaped impact phenomena, look up images of tektites on google.

    Please don’t be taken in by this forbidden archaeology stuff. There is not merely no evidence of arificial origin, but these sorts of things can in many cases already be explained as perfectly natural phenomena.

    Regular shaped objects (eg crystals) are in fact quite common in nature. We must not without good evidence assume that they have been intentionally manufactured.

    Please try not to be so credulous, because if you allow yourself to be fooled by pyramidiots and “beings from space”, who is going to take you seriously in the controversial question of cold fusion?

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – you might also postulate petrified seeds to get this size of item. That might give the pretty decoration, too. But that one looked turned on a lathe (using a skew chisel and not being too careful) to me.

      All of archaeology is opinions, since we weren’t around at the time to take photos, interview the people etc.. Some of these opinions are reasonable, some are crackpot, and we go with the consensus (it really doesn’t matter). As far as I can see, what happened a long time ago won’t affect us now, unless someone set up a time-bomb with a nice big nuclear core. Do I really care whether a Dinosaur was actually red or green? We have no way of knowing anyway, and it will not impact on my life if they were purple instead.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Good point, Craig. We are trying to birth something physically real that everyone can benefit by. Let us not scare off skeptics and materialists and people with their feet solidly implanted in the ground.

  14. Craig Binns Says:

    Iggy, see wiki on this “Klepsdorp Sphere”:

    ‘Heinrich notes that one of Michael Cremo’s sources regarding the allegedly anomalous spheres was the Weekly World News which he described as “…a [sic] unreliable source of data for discussing the origins of the South African spheres described as used by Forbidden Archeology”. As noted by Cairncross, it appears that the source of the Weekly World News article is an earlier article by Barritt. This article appeared in a 1982 issue of Scope magazine about these objects. Scope was a South African tabloid-style magazine that, like the Weekly World News, cannot be regarded in any way as being a credible source.”‘

    Believers in the mysterious alien origin of these things are simply recycling tabloid balderdash through the own brains.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I knew all about the wiki article. Just wanted to make you work.

      Still doesn’t look like natural object.

      Wiki presents the establishment view….not always correct.

      Wiki calls cold fusion a pathological science.

      Wiki is written mostly by your type, mind-numb establishment lackeys. [A lackey or lacquey is a term for a uninformed manservant, in its original meaning (attested 1529, according to the Oxford English Dictionary)]

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – Wiki is pretty well by definition the establishment consensus view. Useful if that’s what you want (quite often) but you can be misled if you take it as truth. The problem is that it is so easy to use the Wiki that people take what it says and don’t search further down the list of googles, maybe not even past the first page.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        If people look to Wikipedia and nothing else, they can be assured that they will never see outside the box. Wikipedia is the box.

        I understand that Craig Binns is the secret source of funding for Wikipedia. Not many people know that.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Iggy, I have to tell you that I am most closest to your viewpoint here at nickelpower, but my commitment to absolute honesty forces me to disagree with you when I do disagree with you.

        Wikipedia reflects common opinion. If the subject matter is commonly well known and not opposed by any other viewpoints, then Wikipedia works. Like, if you want to know the population of Lodi, California, Wikipedia is a good place to look. If you want to investigate the idea that the residents of Lodi, California are all a bunch of alien invaders, then you are going to have to look somewhere else.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – did you like the bit in “Men in Black” where they used the tabloid papers as their source to go find alien visitations? That film had a lot of bright ideas in.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      And, more importantly, what is the point? What possible benefit can be gained from such recycling. What if it were all true? Dozzzzze off. And how would anyone possibly think that a few spheres are going to prove anything and even harder convince anyone. It is all a complete waste of time.

  15. Craig Binns Says:

    Simon, I have for many years studied “alien artefacts” and there is not a shred of credible evidence for any of them! My favourite is the mysterious Coso Artifact, which turned out to be a 1920s spark plug. See for a study of this absurdity.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      “Shred of evidence” is philosophically weak. The Bible is evidence for the existence of Jesus. But it is not confirmed by other evidence. My definition of the word evidence may be more like other people’s definition for the word “data”. Atheists keep saying that there is no evidence for the existence of Jesus, but I thought that the Bible was evidence. It is just not confirmed by any other separate source.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I am reminded of when I see anthropologists and archeologist show rocks that are supposedly stone tools. Sometimes they are stone tools. Sometimes it is the power of suggestion, or the I-Ching process. These dudes want to see human artifacts, and I don’t see it.

  16. brucefast Says:

    Craig Binns, “Please try not to be so credulous, because if you allow yourself to be fooled by pyramidiots and “beings from space”, who is going to take you seriously in the controversial question of cold fusion?”

    Well said, Craig.

    I’ve been looking at this blog, and feeling more and more frustrated. What shall I do, trim threads all over the place? I know its a slow news day, again. I’d rather see less comments to go along with a slow news day than to see more comments that are less relevant.

    However, I am only the administrator, to a real extent this site is owned by all the commenters — including Craig. Please, guys, lets try to stick to LENR, and stuff that somehow correlates. If its a slow news day, fewer comments is fine.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Bruce – there’s almost no news from Defkalion. I’m sure we’re all looking at it more than once each day and they aren’t saying very much at all. We’re twiddling our thumbs and waiting, and this particular thread started off saying “no news” anyway, so I think we’re all blowing a little steam. Frustration for all.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      brucefast, remember that this is also a philosophical or epistemological site. Until we get proof positive, we are going to have to keep an eye on how it is that we know. Consequently, sometimes it is useful to explore other fringe matters to see if we are knowing clearly or doubting clearly.

  17. Bob Says:

    A bit off topic, but I found this as incredible as the rocks your talking about. Maybe proof we are being taken over by alien forces!

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Bob – to me it looks like they are still making a fair profit on those boards, and they are saying it took 6 years to make it. I would expect an ex-factory price of something round $20-25 and time to design it and put into production of somewhere round 6 months – 3 months to working prototype and then a further 3 months to get Linux working correctly and to get the line up to speed and the tests sorted. Having said that, it is a good idea to have this sort of system-on-chip easily available for not too much money.

      • Bob Says:

        Simon, I thout it was a great price for an entry price. There are so many things that this could control. Maybe a Rossi system. It a lot of integration for the price.
        Maybe kids will play with these like we did with the TR80.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        I got the Nascom II (the TRS80 was a bit expensive) – it came as a bare board and the bits, and took a week to assemble. All of 2K RAM. A bit later on I wire-wrapped an SBC based on a Z80. Before you could run CP/M on your machine you had to write the BIOS in assembler and burn the EPROM.

        I think that kids should play with this and learn the nuts and bolts of their computer – most people seem to learn Word and then think they can run a computer. It’ll need a support group (somewhere to spend that profit) and enough bolt-on goodies to make it easy to start off, while those who want to go further can do so too.

        About the price – I tend not to think about the costs of sales, only ex-factory, so it ends up about right. I think the people who buy it will still need a computer for I/O, though, but there are a lot of them around.

      • Bob Says:

        I am not familiar with Nascom II. I sure remember spending hours with my buddies trying to make things happen. I agree Simon, this could be great to get kids to look under the hood. Many consider themselves as techie, but in reality they are just power users. Kids don’t build things or develop things much anymore.

  18. Bob Says:

    Oh Sure, they get the price down where everyone can afford it and know how to program, so what do they do, This:

  19. Bob Says:

    Looks like defkalion is going the Rossi rout

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I have not been able to get into Defkalion all day. Do you suppose Craig hacked it so that extremely good looking people can’t get in?

      • Bob Says:

        According to the link, they are shutting down their forum again, so if that’s what you were trying to get into, the looks weren’t the issue. Rest assured, no facial favoritism was at play here.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        So, I can’t get into at all. Now what do you say about facial favoritism?

      • brucefast Says:

        I am having no trouble getting to

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I don’t understand the concept of “noise” If I am busy cleaning the kitchen, I can’t hear a darn thing from my computer. And if I am on my computer, I just don’t go to places that annoy me. And if I am annoyed by a particular person on a blog, I just shun them and never look at their posts. I don’t get this noise business.

      • Bob Says:

        It wasn’t clear what they were all shutting down, I thought it was just the forum. Maybe they are getting a lot of server hits from everyone. In Rogers case, who knows, It could be facial descrimination. I’m holding judgement for further data.

      • brucefast Says:

        Roger Bird, “And if I am annoyed by a particular person on a blog, I just shun them and never look at their posts.”

        Really? How do you spell Craig Binns.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I confess, Craig Binns was just to charming, in his socially retarded way, for me to shun him for very long. (:->)

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Yes, looks like they’ve taken their ball home and have stopped playing. So the tests will not be published and we won’t be able to determine just how good they are.

      One way of getting rid of Snakes and Clowns, I suppose.

      I don’t know whether this means the tests failed, or that they worked well and Defkalion can’t be bothered spending the time any longer.

      Craig could after all be right. I hope not.

      • Bob Says:

        It could be all of what you mentioned, but I’m guessing being called a scam and changing thing in the middle upset management and they just said no more, lets just execute and do business. I think they reached the Rossi point of dealing with the skeptics.
        This is so frustrating in the lack of news and data. I have to admit, defkalion couldn’t have handled things much worse. I think things are real, as scamers are much more smooth and organized

  20. Gregoryyc Says:

    Ladies and gentlemen of the forum I hereby decree you’ve all been had. The long awaited salvation will NOT arrive.

    Defcalion has been silenced by its own government . This govenrment is under hundreds billions debt and must obey international demand which is to let go of this technology if they are to receive any more help and continue in EU group.

    EU on the other hand has to obey American and Russian demand. Russia presently supply oil to EU in large quantity. America demands financial pressures.

    That is why Japan hasn’t jumped in at E-Cat as is Russia. Russia won’t take it and Japan can’t take it. Even for free.. Only real rescue for this tech is China.

    But China is Socialist with communist ideology ligering not far back yet. Would this government want to lose control to peasants in the field ? Well that’s what’s gonna happen if 1.2 billion people get hold of this cheap energy source. They will want autonomy and separation of power in no time. One who has infinite energy source has the power to sustain self and that is very dangerous idea to Chinese government.

    And don’t forget of those that control the rest of the world won’t stand for it either. Dr. Rossi has been fighting “SNAKES” as best as he could . He never mentioned Defkalion as the one. But he stood tall and proclaimed that he will not be taken down by the by crippling poisons and deathly venoms .

    He has been able to stand this long because of lessons he had learnt from previous intervention. But he is only one man .

    So I also fear very much not in the falacy of claimed technology but the for the dark powers that has descended on our distinguished and courageous researchers/inventors. And we as stupid dumb and silent bystanders as can be will deserve whatever the slavery will bring..

    I wish it were not true. I remain in prayers……

    • Bob Says:

      Gregoryyc, A few years ago I would have laughed and possibly ridiculed your post, but that is not where I am today. I no longer trust the government and am trying to figure out how much power control freaks they are and what there end game is. The free wheeling activity of the FED and the banking community is most troubling. The weki leaks show how corrupt the international deals are.
      We are at a tipping point with oil supply and shortages and pricing is having a huge affect that may plunge is into a world depression. The cure is something to take the place of oil, but t sure isn’t solar or wind, which is all the government seems to be pushing.

      If what you say is true, Rossi will never get approvals required to ship product and everything will be squashed. What we need is to open source the technology so governments can’t block the technology. This could get real ugly before its over.

      Having said that, I still hold hope that I’m just a paranoid extremist and I’m 100% wrong in my hope. I pray I’m wrong.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bob, I think that your mistake is thinking that the government is unified. 99.99% of the government doesn’t even know that Defkalion exists. The government has 10,000 hands, and each hand doesn’t know what the other hand is doing. When the FDA raids raw milk producers, they pour the raw milk on the ground, which is against EPA regulations, and these jerks probably don’t even know now that they broke the law (which, of course, they are above anyway).

      • Bob Says:

        Roger, I think your right on the low level government not knowing whats going on, but the few at the top no the agenda and know which buttons to push. If one group does something, like dump milk, its ok the greater good is served by regulating the people. Its amazing what the government doesn’t know, Holder didn’t know about the gun running, Big Sis thinks the border is safer than ever. The justice department sees no issues on voter fraud and thinks N. Korea will now play nice if we just give them free oil and food.
        They are totally agenda driven and facts have no relevance to reality.

    • brucefast Says:

      Well, that settles it.

      Gregoryyc, how do you know all this?

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Knowing isn’t the real answer. Just as you all here I’ve been trailing everything possible sources of news happenings to wade through the veils of obscurity story after story. Much has happened of late that would otherwise should lift my spirit sky high only took a dive . And mind you I am by nature a very optimistic man.

        At this point I have to admit I am of course shooting dice as most of you know it by now. It had to come down to it . I mean fifty fity chance is all I got left.

        If you must know it. I’ve been expecting a shoe to fall down at somepoint in this game of chicken and tail. We all know Powers Be never stick out their head. Their game is played on a checker board with no colors no lines no shapes. Which is to say they know the game and you can’t see where its coming from.

        Like wise, stealth approach added to labiringth of layers is hard to fathom the source but you know its coming straight at you. And there’s no missing it.
        Specially two sitting ducks like these two…..

        Think, my compatriots. Don’t you think most of governments are puppets with ears cocked open like scared rabbit fully aware of this phenomenon ? And that most of them are stuck between rock and hard place ? They have obligations coming out of their tails and contracts to fulfil. When that happens the best thing for them to do is to pretend nothing happened and just bury it under the mud somewheres and go about the routines. Thousands years of human history will not negate it.

        The story of Rossi and Defkalion is starting to show that certain inadequacies in behaviour changes and statements they make. The sign they are going into full defensive position. No more talking , no more disclosures. No more willy dally wanting to waste times educating their progress. Why the detour now ?

        Both Rossi and Defkaliion are decidedly going into sudden hibernation meaning there’s something very grave is happening. That is what I am forced to speculate. I said fifty fifty. It’s either the soup is boiling or the fire is out.

        I am here and a hoping I get to have nice bowl of soup soon but the matter of fact is, instead, I am feeling slight chill in the air…Or let’s say the SHILL is in the air ?

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I have been expecting, and you can see it in my posts, that Defkalion will act in their interests and not in the interests of the LENR internet cheer leading squad. And I was right. Stop being so freaking gloomy and stop worrying about it. Nothing has changed except Defkalion has a few more man-hours to devote to birthing the new economic order.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        That’s what I’m rooting for.. but….. I am starting to feel heaviness.. You know what I’m saying ? I just hope my paranoid will be in vain. H a ha ha. .

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Gregoryyc, in this particularly case, let your head lead. Take a deep breath and say, everything is going to be all right. Even if Defkalion is shut down and Rossi falls in love with an Argentinian woman and flies of to Buenos Aires and gives up, someone will commercialize LENR. The problem is that us Internet addicts are so used to instantaneous intellectual gratification that we get impatient with the real world.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        brucefast, I suspect that Gregoryyc may be transferring his paranoia to the Defkalion situation.

        It does not sound to me like Defkalion is giving up or being shut down. It sounds to be like they are digging in and getting down to business. What we the LENR cheer leading squad think is ir-freaking-relavent to their success.

      • brucefast Says:

        Gregoryyc, “Both Rossi and Defkaliion are decidedly going into sudden hibernation”

        Most definitely.

        “meaning there’s something very grave is happening. That is what I am forced to speculate.”

        As one who has taken products from design to market, I have the luxury of a different speculation. There is a period of time in a product’s life-cycle when the voices of people saying, “are we there yet” sounds like a dripping faucet.

        The big question is, what is best in light of their business plan. With Rossi, I think its clear — not proving it, until he’s ready with a product is his best deal. Defkalion is a bit different. It initially seems that people wouldn’t want to invest millions to “buy a plant” until they had seen “proof”. So it would seem that providing that “proof” would be beneficial to their business plan. However, if they already feel that they have enough interest, and enough R&D money, they may be quite happy to quietly finish their R&D work without providing hard proof.

        I also wonder if Defkalion was criticized for their test design. They may be frustrated that their wonderful work was not acceptable.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Brucefast, this is all quite incredible. What would it take to shake your credulity? If the Greek police raid Defkalion and find documents proving it’s a scam, and if Defkalion directors plead guilty and get put in the calaboose for a hundred years, and if their machine gets opened up and they find a gas canister inside it … you’ll say it’s a Big Science plot engineered by the Royal Society of London, because they’re all Illuminati controlled by Dr Mengele from Brazil.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig Binns, we know and you know that you are deliberately and consciously exaggerating brucefast’s (and my and a whole bunch of other people’s) position just to try to make a point. I think that it is called setting up a straw man so that you can knock him down.

        I see no change whatsoever as regards the reality or unreality of LENR, Rossi’s claims, and Defkalion’s claims. Defkalion got tired of the games and putdowns and patho-skeptics. It was not in their interests to keep dealing with the forum; it saves them man hours that can be invested elsewhere. Their shutting down the forum could easily be a sign that they are too busy. “Too busy” is good.

        Now, I have to say, if I had invested $100,000 in Defkalion, I might be concerned. But I didn’t. You didn’t.

      • brucefast Says:

        Craig, as I have said ad nauseum, Rossi is beside the point. Defkalion is also beside the point.

        “What would it take to shake your credulity?”
        Demonstrate that at least one or two of the the A list here are not credible.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I doubt it. I doubt that EU, Russia, or the USA even knows that it exists. Nor have they connected the dots.

  21. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    “EU on the other hand has to obey American and Russian demand. Russia presently supply oil to EU in large quantity. America demands financial pressures.”

    I doubt that. The energy producers and creditor nations have less leverage now. When you owe the bank 3 or 4 hundred thou, the bank has you by the balls. When you owe the bank billions, you have the bank by the balls.

    There have numerous economists that have said that Greece should default and exit the European Union.

    Defkalion is in the catbird’s seat.

  22. Roger Bird Says:

    I predict that the Greek government nationalized Defkalion around the time that we were expecting results from the government’s test of the Hyperion. It is too much of a co-incidence for me that (1) Defkalion ***invited*** the government and others for extensive definitive tests, (2) the week came for the government’s turn to do their testing, and (3) Defkalion goes darker than a black cat at night in a closed down (because it is now obsolete) coal mine. This is my prediction.

    The Greek government is hurting for money; it doesn’t take a rocket financier and scientist to realize that a working Hyperion could generate a lot of money. The Greek government is socialistic; it doesn’t take a socialist philosopher to realize that this technology will go a long way to reducing the disparity between the rich and the poor.

    Now the question is, what will this (possible) turn of events mean for the commercialization and success of LANR?

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Roger – if you are right then this would be good news, in that production would be started that much sooner. However, I doubt if the Greek government has the legal power to do that and still stay in the EU. I think we still have to wait for more announcements. Given that the government tests were supposed to be the first of 7 such tests, we have heard nothing of any subsequent ones, either. That is a bit odd, in itself.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Roger and Simon:
        As I have speculated this before I wouldn’t mind saying it again. Of course I hope to bones i am wrong but all indication is highly toxic.
        We’ve been had my fellow telespectators. But the pre scheduled show will not be showing due to ” unexpected interference ” .
        Greek government owes tooo much , politically and financially. not to heed warning shots from ” nightmarishy 0,01%” !!
        Just way too much snakes and enemies and too few kinghts on white horse.
        Likewise I also have a vision of deemly lit candle light over the
        E-Cat office windowsill too.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Your saying that it might be against the law for the Greek government to nationalize Defkalion is sort of like me feeling secure that my one hundred 10 kilo bars of gold are safe and secure because it is against the law to steal. (:->)

        Given that Defkalion is very small and the government would only have to do this once and solve all of their financial woes, then I still think that it is a possibility, despite your assurances.

        Or, Defkalion has voluntarily made some other deal, and part of the deal is for them to shut down their forum. I remember that they started the tests on the 24th of February. That was 21 days ago. I guess it is too early to start freaking out; they may all be waiting to announce all at once.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Yes, Defkalion may have been nationalized but just as likely, it was Defkalion that may have stepped back and reconsidered its strategy after a possibly spectacular test. Some of the other testers may have included large corporations with options to become major partners or stockholders. These new partners may have advised Def to change strategy.

      Give me liberty or give me Def.

  23. Gregoryyc Says:

    You all have to be a bit more realistic. Expecting these world changing in few days was too much to ask. No one will
    stick his neck out over guillotine. It takes so little to put you out, remember JFK over Cuba ?

    So many braves got a kick in the arse for saying the whole lot lesser.
    Only relief is in knowing that no kingdom ever lasted for being ruled by bunch of self rightous .

    Only other problem is, most likely, I will be gone before hand. I am sooooo disheartend by the sorry events. I am not trying to pull you guys down with me but it it what it is. Only a true miracle can aliviate this situ but then again we have to deal with calamities expected as 2012 prediction on the back of your mind as well. Sorry for being a downer lately.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Cheer up Gregor. I believe this technology is too simple to quash.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Gregory, there are, right now, people too busy and too secretive to post who are working on this LENR problem.

        Anyway, other than fulfilling legitimate necessities, nothing outside of yourself can make you any happier.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Gregory – You may place at least some faith in scientific predictions of the future. As regards prophecy and such like – if it really worked they would win the lottery or win some other bet (horses, football, motor racing, stock exchange etc.) every time. Since you don’t see that happening, you can pretty well discount the possibility of it being truth except for a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      Example of self-fulfilling type: a woman is told that if she drives home on her normal route she’ll be killed, so she drives home another way. She doesn’t die and thus can say that the prophecy was true. Another example is to predict that the stock-exchange will have a severe downturn. If enough people act on it and sell their shares, it will happen just as prophesied.

      As Roger says, there are other people working on LENR too, and maybe they have a better system. We’ll just have to wait and see.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        My dear good faithful.

        I am not refuting there are others working hard at it to bring in dashing contraptions to save the world , or at least make oneself zillions hopefully. Take for one, I am one of those myself. I”ve been working on magnet generator that is real uncanny how it does what it does. But neverdless. I have been praying that some one, anyone, of anysort would make it through the stinging high voltage barb wire and bring us good news. But my hopes have been in jeopardy so many times not only to hear the gargoyly cheers of neocons and crooks coooing at failures new devices. It is nervously anticipated each and categorically everyone of what’s new will become just another martyrs without headstone. And I don’t wanna be one of them. Got me kids and families . .

        If you look at what happened to last 2011 canadian federal election where Conservative party won the majority seat with barely 38% popular vote and now comes to light that they had rigged the campaing with “robocalls” where they tried to dissuade those people showing inclination for other parties were first of all were kept phonumber and names in their data base nd later on the eve of election day were told to go to nonexisitng voting places touting themselves as messenger of Election Canada which by law are not allowed to call any members of electors and to this day with their scamm unfolding right before our eyes these neocons will claim honesty and blame all others for its crime… OH my my..

        . So is true. I will, along with few other souls who bared their intimacy with alternative energy, most likely also be black listed by those 0.001% as expendable by claiming to have been working on device they do not fancy. So be it. I am not a pessimist. I want the whole world to live in harmony and in peace and I will run for Miss beauty pagent world too. ha ha ha..

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Gregoryyc, if you want the world to live in peace and harmony, you could start by stop demonizing those whose political position differ from yours. I am a neocon; I am far from rich; I am much closer to poor.

        No one is making you miserable. You are making yourself miserable. I suggest that you start fixing your problem by making sure that you get at least 3 grams of fish oil every day. EFT is very valuable. Rasa Sadhana is terrific. Yoga is good. If you want to stop being depressed, you have to do something about it. The world and the state of the world are not going to make you stop be depressed.

        I am just as interested in LENR triumphing as any liberal.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Hey you’re right. Roger and out.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Gregoryyc, please don’t pout. It is only self-destructive. I am not being harsh with you. I am simply pointing out a universal truth. It does not mean that we don’t love one another. It means that we become happy not by getting other people to love us but by loving others. I have been where you are right now. You have to dig yourself out of your misery; no one can save you. People can only help. I am here to help.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        One other thing Gregory – you say you are working on a magnet-driven motor. This has been tried by many people in various formats, and failed to work each time. If it did work, it would probably get colder in operation – see my lengthy explanation on Post. Springs push and pull nicely, but would you expect to get free work from a motor that self-powers from springs? Not unless there’s a big one that you wind first.

        So far, all the motors driven by magnets that you’ve seen have been hoaxes – it updates to a scam when they ask you for money. If you can point to a particular process where the work is created, rather than saying “it’s zero-point energy” or “it’s orgone energy” (generally a way of saying you don’t know, or that it’s magic) then fine, go ahead. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that you need a feasible way of persuading energy to sort itself into high and low areas without you needing to put in an equal amount of work to do it. But you should be able to say precisely what you are doing, and why it happens.

        My advice is that it is unlikely that you will get any energy out of a pure magnetic motor that you didn’t first put in. With LENR, you know where the energy is stored, and what happens to get it out. It has a much better chance of payback for your time.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Simon I’ll try not to disilusion you. the fact of the matter is this. Thane heinz has discovered the effcts of Anti’Lenz effect/ or rather he was able to discerne what’s behind this weird self push pull effect of shorted output coil against a magnet spining at certain speed . At certain critical speed and beyond the coil generates magnetism that is in cooperation with the forward movement of the rotating whell where magnets reside. go to you tube and look at this . He is currently building an add on device to a scooter that will help it charge the basttery while ingreasing mileage. YOu get the bouble bonus . you got that ? I use slightly different method where the anti-Lenz effect kicks in throughout rotation. but as i have guessed it . soon as you mention you have something different than text book you all come out to say it ain’t . Plus this one is TOTALLY replicable so go do your work and then come back and tell me it ain’t. Mine seem to give more but tha’ irelevant. Thane Heinz has senthis sample devices to NASA and few other universities while he was doing the research at Ottawa University. But I guess no one has offered him a penny yet. so he is building this sccoter to show his technology. go take a look . Its culmination of years of work by this man.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Gregory – I hope it works. If he can loop the output from the generator back to feed the frequency-generator that drives the motor, then it can be shown to work. At the moment I see a system that becomes less inefficient at a certain speed. Although this in itself can be useful, it’s not over-unity, and he’s not getting work for free.

        This isn’t textbook, it’s simple logic – if it can run itself and give you energy to spare then it’s working, and the textbooks need to be rewritten. When you think you’ve got something, test it by looping it back. You can then show it to anyone, and they will have to believe it if it works in their lab too.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        I am not going to say it is over unity. I haven’t got that far yet. But it does make the damned thing draw much less cource current while spining up higher like a bat outta devil HA HA. Go take a look at Thane Heinz and few replicators you will get much better idea of what i’m talking about. . Remember to look at his work going back last couple of years to get insde look at his new theory.. So give yourself the rest of the day off and sit tight and get yourself a large mug of coffee and crackers. He will explain what is what step by step and how he figures a new pardigm has to be embraced by us all. Really amazing stuff. I didn’t know why it was happening to my set up before but with his help now I do . I thought I was crazy but I know i am not… ha haha.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Gregory – I wish you luck and hope you succeed, but I’m working on other things at the moment. I have bookmarked the page, though – I’m not taking over Craig’s place as resident patho-skeptic.

      • brucefast Says:


        I watched the ThaneCHeins youtube video that you linked to. It certainly looks to be the same technology as the “SAD” (South African Device) machine. If this technology actually works, it’ll seriously weird me out.

        There are two things standing squarely against it. First, it is scientifically very impossible. Second, engineers, hobbyists, and various others have been fiddling around with motors and generators for near on 200 years. For them to have missed such a phenomenon feels a bit unbelievable to me.

        This gets to the equation of “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. I bit on Rossi’s invention for two reasons: First, I kept hearing cold fusion pop out here and there after Pons and Fleischmann. The most notable was an explosion in the “cold fusion lab” at SRI. That left me with the feeling that the phenomenon was for real. Second, Rossi introduced his technology by demonstrating it to top physicists.

        While this video is interesting, the fact that it defies deeply established laws of physics requires far more than a good video to prove it to me. Now a truly open source “kit” where I can make it myself, that’d tempt me. A declaration of its validity from at least two major scientific sources (like the 10 that have been documented here would also seriously pique my interest.

        Of course a product for sale at Home Depot, well, its hard to argue with that.

        Wouldn’t it be wild if Rossi got UL approval on his device only to have the technology go obsolete before it went very far at all?

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        It is so easy to replicable it’s not even funny. And the power output is infinite if you so desire limited only by the space available around stator area.
        Remember each outout coil is totally independent unit. It generates it’s own electricity of its own accord. But this gets a bit better actually. It seems that multiple coil set up helps each other to increase its output more so than stand alone. For some reason magnetic force soem how flows over to intensify each others flux generated at each coil.

        I’d like you to spend few more minutes to look at one particular replication by a dutch engineer who will also give you mathematical reason why that happens. It is based on a simple physics of induction vs inductance . Yes it is whole within exixting physics and no law has been broken or modified. It is simply used differrently to make use of existing magnetics. What Thane Heinz called Anti-Lenz effect can be explained by calculating frequency time delay caused by all inductors. look at the clip below. ( this clip is also imberded in Thane’s site but I put it here for you)

        You know. larger the inductor larger the time delay. Also you know, larger the inductor larger the inductance. So that’s nothing new to nobody. So the thing to take advantage here is resulting time delay and put it effect used to create magnetic force that propels the forward motion instead of causing reverse breaking force.
        That is again easy to do. All you have to do is to match up the speed of rotor against stator where two poles will be moving across each pole faces at right time . in this case you’d wanna make rotor with magnets and stator the output coil assmbly. Rotor speed ( critical speeed at which this regenerative acceleration kicks in )depending on inductor size. The quantity of produced magnetcs is dependant on both the size of inductance and the magnet force.

        You can use any old parts and coils to make this device to fucntion. Just make sure high (of several hundreds volts ) impedance and low current ( in few hundreds milliamps). If you intend to replicate it I’d advise you to see all his video clips going back couple of years. It really helps to understand it better.

        It is possible to make it over unity device on the fly but Thanes has not dared to say that on account of bad publicity of the kinds you are well aware of happening with Defkalion and Rossi. He is currently only promoting it as super efficient generator of sort.


      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Another thing Bruce. I use C-core around the magnet. It is done so to make more efficient use of magnet using both poles of same magnet instead of one side only,., And this has created a new configuration and operation parameters. So far it shows slow incremental curved critical speed. In Thane’s case the critical speed kicks in at certain point only and it will persist over the initial speed just fine.. Mine has pre-critical speed that starts at lower speed and gets better at higher speed of course. So using C-core will prevail forwards motion at all rotor speed and get to its peak when it goes beyond actual critical point . But assembly and adjustments get to be a bit more difficult..

        With all honesty I don’t think this sort of device will ever over take ECats or Hyperion as far as power density is concerned. But it does lend another simplicity in that it generates electricity in one fell swoop whereas ECAT has to involve steam engine and then a generator add ons . If they develope a way to a more direct power conversion from heat to eletricity then ECat has no competition. Pap-engine is a good choice too but it is difficult to replicate and service and involves detailed electronics control circuitry to maintain just as ECat will be.

        This magnet generator is much more sturdier in that it only has 3 moving parts. ( rotor and 2 bearings..) plus a drive motor that starts the whole thing which could be taken off after . . No fancy electronics . The output can be in multiple phase AC or single phase AC or DC. You can use the output directly to a load or use it to charge battery bank. Mine was pland for a 30-40kw unit but we will have to see it.
        Just other day though one magnet felll off ( it was gluied on its side only) and crashed onto others to cause avalanche effect in breaking other magnets off the rotor and they crashed into one drive motor and their splinters got stuck in the walls and ceilings. I was saved by inches……. I am thinking of changing rotor configuration and redesign.. if you need anything let me know.

      • brucefast Says:

        Gregoryyc, “Yes it is whole within exixting physics and no law has been broken or modified.”

        Thane seems to disagree with you. Please note the box on the lower left says:

        Generator is now violating:
        – LENZ’S LAW

        View video at minute 4:30

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Bruce. What he is saying is that in reality , “old LAW” insisted it wasn’t possible. But “it is”. So he is saying that the textbook has to be modified to say so. Which means old law the way it stated is wrong. Isn’t it . And quite rightly so.

        Now lets look at this from NEW point of view. reflecting back a step for a moment :
        Old law says that anyt time there is extraction of energy it has to counter source energy. Which is to say the output is always smaller than input. so is the LENZ’s LAW. along with Law of Thermo Dynamics and the Law Of Conservation of Energy. And thereby it didn’t allow for any other ways of thinking and thus the misery we live by today.

        In the light of dicovery of this new phenomenon we must actively dissuade old school of any types of permanency and go for the infinite knowledge of infinite wisdom . Who knows what else is out there that we were ignorant of . It may be million other things.

        Just look at new discoveries we are making in the fields of Nano’s. Such as all particles seem to behave so totally different from when they are in congregated in large masses as we know them to have existed so far. Once they are in sub molecular size they behave in one way and once again when they are in atomic sizes they behave in another way, So as in Carbon atoms and Nickel etc..

        So we could safely say that a particle has several modes of operandy depending on its size not withstanding the environment and typres of forces exerted on them. All of the “LAWs” we had assumed are breaking and new ones are being studied every day along with speed of light even and theories on constalation.
        Many new forms of science are evolving while new theories are trying to catch up such as LENR. And LENZ’s law and it’s cousins shouldn’t be no exception here.

        Now NEW LAW should be written that no Law is permanent. All laws are porous and malleable and expendable and replaceable. It dictates that any one particular law is suitable for only certain things but not others even within the confinement of a same particle.

        Thus the there should also be “ANTI-LENZ LAW”. to explain the new ( actually its pretty old but newly explained,,,) found understanding of magnetic usage. This is to capitalize in on the ways in which we can make use of for one the “magnetic inductive delay effect”

        We have long been using this delay effect very well for design of frequency filtering via ” high Q” of a LRC resonancy. and to explain energy dissipation effects that is to say the effect of “LOSS” .

        But never have we bothered to make use of it by simply placing it at different angle to actually to accentuated that is to say the effect of ” ACCUMULATION”. For another example: Take look at few Russian discoveries in ferrite electricity.

        Yes, to me, no law has been broken because Old Law still works within its sphere but a new law should coexist to compliment new ways. It’s like the case of matter and new found antimatter. REmember just short time ago that a space vaccum in the space was told to be devoid of anything ?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – It actually says LAW OF CONSVEVATION OF ENERGY – I missed that misspelling first time through, too.

        It’s great that, even if we don’t believe it, we still look at something that’s pointed out. Maybe most of the time it’s some form of hoax, but sometimes you hit gold. Otherwise we’d have dismissed LENR, too.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Gregory – Following your posts I’ve been looking at a few sites to do with magnetic motors and breaking Lenz’s law. It seems there are many videos of “working” motors, and quite a few places you can buy the secrets of how to make them. I’ve read some lunatic posts, and also some from people who are applying some clever thought to it. There are many designs you can buy. The common thread is that you can’t buy a working motor, only plans. Quite often the original inventor is now missing leaving only reports of the motor working. No-one has persuaded a manufacturer to put them into production.

        If it was a matter of timing, I think that the clever people I’ve read would have found a way to get the timing right. They have tried lots of ways and produced reasonable measurements.

        I agree with you that all physical laws have their limitations, and there are some that we don’t yet know where the limits are so we may find a way round them. They do, however, act as guidance for what we can and cannot do with the technologies we currently know.

        Despite the conspiracy theories, I still think that if a person found such a motor that actually worked, we would be able to buy a motor rather than the plans of how to make one. It would be copied in China at least – probably India too. Since you don’t see this, it is very unlikely that such a motor can be built. As such, don’t spend too much money on it.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        If being able to buy at neighborhood store is limits of your belief system then of course no one should ever try anything and everyon therefore either is a failure or fraud.

        I would however leave you with this last bit. We are servants and slaves of those that keeps us from it all. The world is full of likes of JP Morgan and their shills.

        And for that matter even Tariel Kapanadze is in endangered list.
        As of late he is in hospital very sick and suspected victim taget poisoning as Stepehen Meyer was. Only because he will not sell out to power interests.

        Even USA military itself works in its own self interest .
        If anyone comes up with such a thing as Free Energy device
        lo-n-behold it will make sure it will keep it for itself never mind other slew of private self intersted parties looking at it like a vultures as well. So that’s it.
        Lastly. You would never see my device on store shelf either. For the same reason why Thane never claims it to be OU device.
        Why, I myself would never divulge my success if I ever get it .
        I value my life and family a bit more than some braves.

        I am going to end this part of discussion for it will be an empty and endless and forlorn at best.
        I ony wish Rossi and DefKalion would come to life, that is all for now.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I am dismayed that anyone would fall for the nonsense that Tesla’s great invention of free energy for everyone was suppressed by JP Morgan and/or other financial interests.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Hey you know some ? If I were JP Morgans Grand son I’d say the same thing.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Unfortunately, I cannot understand what you are trying to say.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Gregory – You have maybe misread the tone of the comments here. I suggested ways you could make your tests cheaper and easier to do, but I remain sceptical that it will work. Despite this, I hope that you get it to work.

        If you do succeed, you have at least a three options; (a) keep it quiet and hope no-one notices, (b) go to a manufacturer and get help to make it and thus profit from it and (c) publish the method on the net.

        With option (a) you can’t really keep it secret as some one else will know – once two people know something then it’s no longer a secret. If you are worried about the Powers That Be (PTB) coming down on you, secrecy won’t save you (unless no-one else at all knows). With option (b) you have the same problem with PTB, but once it is sold then it will be replicated in China and at least you’ll make some money out of it. With option (c), we know that once something is out on the net, it can’t be suppressed and the PTB can do nothing about it. You may even get some donations.

        If you wish to protect your family from the possible retributions of PTB, you either have to stop experimenting (in case you succeed) or publish what you have as soon as you can.

        Personally, I think that the more people experiment and try to find an answer, the more likely it is that we’ll find something. I thus support your endeavours, even if I think it’s not possible – after all, I could well be wrong. I will direct my efforts into things I think have a good chance, even though other people may think that I’m wrong.

        Incidentally, one other place you may find a motor you can reasonably modify to suit is the stepper motor from an old floppy-disk drive or similar.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Simon, if you don’t believe that Gregoryyc free energy machine will work, then you are suppressing him and are working for the powers that be.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I think that Gregoryyc may be the flip side of the Craig Binns, who we have not seen around here lately. I suppose balance is difficult when we are surrounded by so much uncertainty.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Thanks for your understanding Simon.
        My test device is large heavy size already at 30-40kw range and to go back to tiny sample testers won’t do for now but thanks for your advice. For all the cost involved and time, it is all so interesting and fun while at it but it is also draining , I have stopped last while for a break.
        And I still say it is much cheaper and easier to just buy Rossi machine for $500 at 10kw rating. I may want several units. ONly if it gets done . Amen.

      • brucefast Says:

        Gregorygc, you seem determined to convince us to become way quicker to buy into claims of free energy. While you can buy into every claim that comes along, the majority on this site value are discernment. Please respect our values.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        disCERNment day – March 22

      • Gregoryyc Says:


        I am not here to convince you or anyone else. You go believe what you want and I go do mine. I also believe in this one thing.
        I have observed in other sites that has moles/shills that are only there to offer “help straighten out” that are in fact are there to mislead the truth.
        On the one hand they come sounding like a saviour with offers of money and such but in fact they are there to take control of new inventions/technologies and bury them for the benefits of powers be. That is why you keep seeing those calls of fraud to Rossi for example when in fact He has not taken not one penny of your money. A mere action of coming to reveal his discovery and share the information makes him fake and fraud. That has been not different with Galileo.
        I am here to expand my vision and understanding of matters and share my findings. You are free to assume what ever. All information I have alluded to are free and easily accessible for those wanting clarification. And of course for most of you and for me too alot of infoes found seem totally out of mind and seem so wrong . But as for me I try to keep open mind. I will not reject any claims until I try it out for myself . I don’t mind saying I did do on few replications such as in Geets ( proved to increase about 50% burn rate) and Thanes ( definitly works as my own device although not OU yet), wind generators, high frequency magnetic generators etc..
        For those claims such as Kapanadge that I can’t do replications I will reserve plenty skepticism just as much any of you. But I do believe it could happen . why not ? I’m being positive.
        So whatever you wish to believe is up to you. And that has nothing to do with respecting your ego or mine.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        That is a lot of paranoid garbage. If you have something that puts out free energy, how come you aren’t selling energy back to your utility. (And if you live in a region where your utility doesn’t buy back energy, why don’t you move to some place that does.) And when you make a profit, you could build more free energy devices and make even more money. Eventually you would have so much money that you could promote your device by buying a full page ad in the New York Times. And if they refused to publish it, you could buy your own chain of newspapers. But I suppose that you are too spiritual do deign to touch money, even though doing so would go a long way towards promoting your free energy.

  24. Gregoryyc Says:

    Dear readers i would like to have your attention.
    Here is an excerpt from a web site I’ve just come to receive. If this won’t fluster you down to core then nothing will. I still cross my fingers for our angels to win !!
    View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Articles

    Administrator Join Date:Nov 2011
    Posts:40Update of You Tube Video About LENR (and other things).
    One of the main reasons I believe Andre Rossi and his
    E-Cat are the real deal is because of what has been
    happening since I posted on my blog site that I was
    making a video that will demonstrate how to make the
    nickel fuel, and demonstrate many LENR devices I’ve
    worked with over the years. When I ordered the
    necessary chemicals, that when mixed produce the proper
    size nickel nano-particles with lattice surface defects
    that enhance the LENR effect, several events happened.

    1. The account I use to pay for my research materials
    was frozen.

    2. The account number was used (by person
    or persons unknown) to steal all the funds in my

    3. Credit card services canceled the stolen
    number and I requested a new number be issued, but
    since I had made several purchases just before the
    theft, I was forced to contact them and pay by check.

    4. The laboratory supply house that I have ordered from
    before, and always shipped the next day, did notify me
    they received my order, but then … nothing. As of now,
    a month after placing the order for the chemicals, they
    have not responded to any of my inquiries about the
    status of the order. I had other laboratory equipment
    on order from them, also nothing about that.

    5. The
    work shop where I do research that I rent in an
    industrial park was vandalized. It contains
    irreplaceable equipment for experiments, but has no
    value to any common thief.

    6. I have definitely been
    under surveillance while driving about town to buy
    materials. Same people, same vehicles following, and at
    the purchase counter some one always watching what i
    was buying.

    7. My computer system has been going down
    every few days. I use it for research and
    communications, and when it stops functioning it
    happens in such a way that the operating system can
    not be restored. Only by reformatting the hard disk and
    reloading the entire operating system can I get it
    working again. This takes a half day every time. The
    cyber attacks are penetrating multiple shields, virus
    protection software, and firewall’s.

    8. Many of the
    video clips that were in process of editing have been
    destroyed, since they were in the computer.

    It would
    seem that as long as you do not try to make the fuel,
    or build advanced LENR devices to generate power, you
    can say and think anything you want. But try to do
    something, and make a video showing how it is done, you
    will be targeted. So, all I have to say about Rossi is…
    Good luck Rossi! (Because you are going to need it!)

    By the way, I have said before that if Rossi was topped
    for any reason, me and thousands of others who can,
    will spread the information about how to make the fuel
    to every body in the world. I have decided that even if
    Rossi is not stopped, I am going to continue, and WILL
    provide the information about the LENR fuel in a video,
    with an E-book, and hard copy book, to EVERY BODY IN


    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Gregory – looking at point 7, this is a person who uses Windoze. However, if he managed to post that tale of woe, he could also have posted how to make the Nickel powder (if he knows it). The video will no doubt still be on the camera memory or on some other form of backup – to upload it doesn’t take long if you don’t edit it first. Given the illogicalities in those two bits, the rest is not very believable unless you know the person personally and can verify it.

      It’s a bit more FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt).

      The powder itself is probably Raney Nickel, used as a catalyst in various chemical reactions (amongst them, making margerine). As I remember it, basically you make a mechanical alloy of Aluminium and Nickel by putting the powdered metals into a ball mill. You then remove the Aluminium using Sodium Hydroxide, and wash the powder well. This gives Nickel with a very high surface area to volume ratio. The “secret sauce” is probably something like Potassium Carbonate and/or Potassium Borate – light nuclei tend to slow faster neutrons down rather than capturing them.

      Given that I can describe a method in a few lines, if he knew it couldn’t he have done the same? Instead he talks for much longer on how he wants to tell the world, but doesn’t actually do it.

      I think maybe he’s seen too many spy movies. It’s best not to believe much of what you read on the ‘net unless you know the people personally – would you believe a stranger in a city who told you he had a bridge to sell?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        But Simon, how do you explain this?

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I guess because we have the technology to destroy cities and make striped toothpaste that we humans are so smart and know pretty much everything.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        and this?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – I can’t explain them. Most ufo stories are mistaken identity of some sort or another, but there remains a hard core that we can’t explain as errors. If they are aliens, they are doing a fairly good, but not perfect, attempt at keeping hidden. It may be some other natural thing, but in the first example it was caught by 7 different cameras – kind of hard to blame that on a visual artefact in the camera. So it’s something, but I don’t know what.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I remember as a child hearing the news about the crashed “Flying Saucer” at Roswell. It was front page news in all the newspapers. A couple of days later the military reversed its story saying that the wreckage was debris from a weather balloon.

        50 years later I was active in genealogy research working on my and my wife’s, (Jane) family tree. I got a letter from Jane’s cousin, Priscilla, saying that she was writing a book on their family history and she asked if I would help gather info. Priscilla was a retired registered nurse and was married to Chuck, who was a medical doctor in Roswell, New Mexico.

        On one of Priscilla’s genealogy trips to Florida I met her and Chuck. I made a crack about the UFO incident to Dr Chuck. Chuck replied, “Do you remember the story about the young mortician who witnessed some of the activity involving the crash bodies and wreckage?” I replied that I was familiar with the mortician’s story.

        Chuck said, “Well Glenn Dennis is my best friend and we’ve been weekend fishing buddies for the past 40 years. Glenn was so afraid of retaliation that he never mentioned a word about the UFO crash to me until the recent book, at which time he acknowledged that it was all true”.

  25. Gregoryyc Says:

    Simon another thing. No it doessn’t get cold. As a matter of fact it warms up quiite well depending on loading and how long you run it. Forget about universal energy or anything else. Here we have a simple magnetics . Logic here used is very simple. Higher impedance coil has tendency to keep its electrical flow out of pahse to incoming magnetic force that creates resident electrical force. In normal circuit where magnets generates electricity you will have appearnace of opposite magnetic pole showing where you draw out the energy therby acting agaisnt the forwards motion . but here this magnetic pole apeears after the actuating pole passes the coil so it in fact help to [propel it . Think about it carefully and you will laugh at how we all could’ve missed it out. The present textbooks are written in such a way to explain when impedance is low jusr buit right for low cost and maximum energy output. but no one thought of giving the pick coil an extra winding and see what it does. Only thought as a waste is not. it reverses the Lenz effect !!!.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Gregory – please take the energy you get out and use it to run the motor. If you get more energy out than the motor uses, and can thus power something else, then you have overunity. I’d suggest a big capacitor to store the energy – makes controlling the speed a bit easier, and also stops the “desulphating” effect on a lead-acid battery confusing your measurements. Good luck! I hope you do it.

  26. Gregoryyc Says:

    Simon . let me add this. You don’t need over unity to prove it works. As Rossi states . His ECAT is valued at COP of 6. Well I know he’s saying it to pacify his enemies…

    Let me ask you this . If you got an electric car with range of say 40miles on full charge. The key word is “full charge”. If this battery never drain out or say it takes a lot longer to dicharge , like lets say increase of 50-60% to begin with, would you say it help you or not ? to me it would be like having that much larger battery plus not having to pay for it and another much longer battery life because it hardly ever goes through a full discharge cycle which is where all present day batteries get most its damages from. Now in the case of “Regeneration Acceleration ” device it will last life of a car. It will be part of a drive motor or a simple add-on. With further develpement this can shrink in size and power output. lets say you can double or triple your mileage with the device with multiple output coil. yes. Any number of output coils can be installed as long a there’s a room in the sphere around the stator. And each coil will simply add to to each other. . As for me i was looking into runing it at full speed at all times recharging the battery while using the power where it multiplies the battery power mutiple times . In effect if this device could be built tiny and built-in it could make any battery a super long lasting one. Just a thought. But I was interested in ECAT or HYperion more than my device for the reason of its simplicity and power density. WE’ll all have to wait to see it pan out .. Jus pray like hell will ya all ?? . Roger you too.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Gregory – if you can extend the life of a battery when driving a car, you are on to a good thing even if it’s not over-unity, so keep trying. Your idea of a C-core for the coils is good, too. Since a smaller coil only means you need to run the thing faster to get the timing right, think about using a lot of very small magnets instead of the bigger ones, or use one big one between two iron cups where the cylindrical part is slotted (hold your hands together and interleave your fingers to get the idea). Look at the way an alternator rotor is built to get a better idea. Using this method you can reduce the cost, get a really fast magnetic change at relatively slow rotational speed and make things safer too. Using similar finger-interleaved cups for the coil core would mean you only need one coil, too. If you can build the cores out of either powdered iron or ferrite, then the eddy-current losses will be lower, and it won’t heat so much. Heat is lost work, after all.

      One place you’ll find this sort of motor already is in an old mains electric clock, the type that you have to kick-start and it can go either way. It has the permanent magnet, and normally the coil should be fairly high impedance since it is connected to the power plug. You may also find one in one of those cheap 24-hour plug-in timer switches, the type where there is a dial that rotates in 24 hours and has little segments around the dial that you lift or push down to switch something on and off at various times of the day. Cost is $5 to £10. You may also find something similar in one of those wind-up LED torches that have recently become cheaply available. Set up a variable-speed drive using a small DC motor and put your ‘scope on the output. If you can get enough power out to run the motor and have some left over, then you’ve won. Doing it on a small scale is not as impressive, but costs a lot less and is much quicker to set up, especially if you can buy the parts ready-made. You can always scale up once you’ve proved the principle.

      Although I agree with Bruce that it would be amazing if, after all the people who have tried this over the years, that you can actually get it to work well enough to be useful, I’ve seen enough crazy things that I can’t just say it won’t work. I just don’t expect it to work, that’s all.

      Good luck!

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Gregory – I don’t know whether you saw my post at where I pointed to a project to “desulphate” batteries. It looks like you might find it useful. The link has all the data about what it does and how it does it, and some good microscope shots of before/after.

      Over the years I have refined my rules of making things – I think they are worth considering, and you can adopt them if it suits you:
      1: If you can buy it, and can afford it, then that is the best path which mostly saves a lot of time and money.
      2: If you have to make something, look for manufactured things that, with a modification, will do the job.
      3: If you are making the whole thing, look for subsections that are standard and that you can buy or get from a scrapyard. You can often buy something that contains what you want cheaper than you can buy just what you want.
      4: Spend a long time on design and simulations.
      5: Make something small and cheap to start with – the first one or two will always need modifications. If it’s too big to start off with, you’ll be locked into a bad design and waste a lot of money and time.
      6: When all the bugs and physics are sorted, build the full-size one. There may be some problems scaling, but you’ll have more information to solve it.

      Getting stuck on the wrong path is extremely common, and if you haven’t already spent your budget on one idea then you have the option to change your ideas. Since the initial idea is rarely perfect, this is a really good thing.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Henry Ford, when building one of his early models, specified to one of his suppliers that he ship the parts in a certain size box. The shipping box had to be of exact dimensions, type and grade of lumber, with certain type and grade screws.

        When the car finally rolled off the assembly line, the supplier discovered that he had not only supplied his manufactured part, but to his amazement he learned that he had also supplied the floorboards.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Simon :
        I page marked Desulfation site . Pretty usuful infoe in there I wasn’t expecting, i will keep it for should I need it. Thanks.

        I spent few years trying to design an electrical car eons ago.
        I had 6 sets of 12kw brushed DC Jet motor/generator (all but gone or sold ) and 16kw 400hz generator brushed rotor poles stator is output ( I still have it) forced air cooled types. So they were compact and powerful.

        DC generators were of series wound 4-pole. I converted 3 of them to compound winding. It was pretty tough because there was hardly any space . As compound it would turn at less than 2 amps 12V as compared to nearly 30 amps it took as series. and it turned quicker and stronger . Plus it was much easier on the motor controller.
        My eyes took it badly and took me years recovering from burning eyes but my lung hardly noticed it, LOL.

        I had 2 DC motor/generator and turned them into DC generator with the help of a 2 to 1 gearbox and a 401cubic inch blue GM motor out of a station wagon. It did splendid job . I used them to crank the motor and then switch them over to generating and I used them for heavy duty welding and charging batteries. Eventually I sold it later .

        And it showed that my proof of concept was right in that it didn’t take that large horse power to make a full size car to move . For instance as an engine a 401 cubic inch motor at 275 horsepower was way over powered for normal driving. It was to satisfy acceleration but nothing more. I had tested it on a converted 8 cylinder to work as 4 cylinder and drove that thing on highway just as good for many months to prove the maxim. If you can live with a bit slower taek off there’s no problem. It only slowed a second or less in acceleration.

        A set of 24kw motor with 4x over current rating was good enough and at cruising you could only need 12kw .

        So I needed few batteries and only way to get them was reviving old ones.

        When I last revived few totally dead batteries ni-cad and gell-cell and regular lead-acid batteries I had success rate of about less than 20%. If they still had some voltge the rate was about 30% .

        How good do they come back to ? That was mostly dependant on how good the plate condition was particularly at last celll on the +side. If the plates hadn’t flaked off so bad it could be salvaged at over 50% if there was large deposit of sludge at the bottom from flaked off plate material than it was for the dumps.

        This circuitry resembles much of what the techniques I used. except I used 4 methods one ofter other in sequence. in combinations depending on the condition of the battery. 1) reverse charging. 2) high voltage low/medium current. 3) medium current at controlled voltage till full charge.

        Only thing that was most important was to make suer the thing didn’t smoke or spew gas . That was sign it was time to bury them. (My lawn tractor battery only 2 years old was dieing wouldn’t take the charge but I did manage to save it to about 60%and power enough to crank an engine). So there it is.

        All in all it took alot of attention and time to oversee recoveries. this circuitry would defintely save headaches for charging part. But for the most part alot of effort goes into selection and testing before it even goes to final charging. I saved completely frozen batteries years old that had white calcium deposit on it visible too. that was hard work. I wanted to see if I could recover that more so than needing it. So goes the time spent by likes of me inventive/creative nutheads. LOL>

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        This is a new type battery that is claimed to withstand 2,000 charge/discharge cycles. The company hopes that auto makers will use their product in the next generation start-stop vehicles which will shut off the engine at stoplights.

        Lead-Carbon Energy Storage Device Overview
        PbC® Technology

        “The full technical description of Axion’s proprietary PbC® technology is a “multi-celled asymmetrically supercapacitive lead-acid-carbon hybrid battery.” Like a lead-acid battery, our battery consists of a series of cells. Within the individual cells, however, our construction is more complex. Where the negative electrodes in lead-acid batteries are simple sponge lead plates, our negative electrodes are five-layer assemblies that consist of a carbon electrode, a corrosion barrier, a current collector, a second corrosion barrier and a second carbon electrode. These electrode assemblies are then sandwiched together with conventional separators and positive electrodes to make our battery, which is filled with an acid electrolyte, sealed and connected in series to the other cells.

        We have been testing laboratory prototypes of Axion’s PbC® batteries since April 2004. Our test protocol requires a complete charge-discharge cycle every 7 hours to a 100% depth of discharge. During testing, our laboratory prototypes have withstood more than 2,000 cycles before failure. In comparison, most lead-acid batteries designed for deep discharge applications can only survive 300 to 500 cycles under these operating conditions. Based on the work completed during the laboratory development stage, we believe our application specific prototypes will offer several key performance advantages over conventional lead-acid batteries, including:

        significantly faster recharge rates;
        significantly greater charge acceptance
        significantly longer cycle lives in deep discharge applications; and minimal required maintenance.”

  27. Bob Says:

    I know we talked about SAD on another thread, but this seems appropriate based on the discussion.

    You too can buy in. I wouldn’t put my money down without more proof, but I hope it works out.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Bob – did you see this gem too?

      It seems that getting free energy could be dangerous for your health!

      • Bob Says:

        Nothing is safe, makes it hard to get out from under the covers. LOL

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I think that some people may need a little more analytical thinking and a little less “Oh gee wow” thinking.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Another SAD announcement: where the battery “only” lasts 3-4 months. If you had to buy new batteries 4 times a year it would still be cheap electricity – if it worked. If it ran for a day or two it would be proof of concept, and if supercaps were used in place of the batteries you would expect no problems anyway.

      • Bob Says:

        This doesn’t smell right to me. Since they announced they were going to do testing it hasn’t been 3-4 months, not sure its real data. The instability would be a potential liability for burning out appliances or fires. Your right, the 3-4 months show real potential. Using supercaps directly may not work as they they once stated that it won’t work with just caps. The usage of Caps to store and charge the battery like Johan make sense to me.
        This fits the profile for a scam, another delay. I was initially very hopeful, but now I am colored very skeptical on this. Long term testing should have been the first thing they did, not a recent find. Hope it all works out, mankind needs something.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        So after all it seems similar to Aviso’s except Aviso has only 1 battery that is used for both the source and chraging at same time and it never got over charged . Also the Aviso’s system had tons of Caps to pacify the recovered voltage ( in one of his video you could see his assistant shorting out a cap at back of buggy) and then control charging from there as well as used as source for powering the motor. Aviso has much more power. He can run his buggy on its own, basically on freee energy) and credibility except he hasn’t got backings. Wish I had few millions . I would have him go in no time. Wonder whatever happen to him anyways ? He was to present his HHO system powered by offshoot of motor power system in Florida in past Feb ?

      • Bob Says:

        Alviso is an interesting character. He seems to start a lot of things, but nothing ever comes of the things he works on and then you read that he is working on something else.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        Yeah.. Ismael Aviso…. He’s like Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison all in one. He has so many fantastic inventions that ALL WORK to anybodies amazement !!

        Just hoping should his country president back him up he’d do real fine and real boon to rest of humanity as well.

        In some ways he might be better contender than Rossi or Defkalion and the rest.

      • brucefast Says:

        “the battery “only” lasts 3-4 months” This smells like a lame excuse for delay. If the technology works it is revolutionary — they can prove it even with 3-4 month batteries.

        These guys are not battery engineers. If the battery is the issue, let the battery experts figure out how to make a battery that lasts longer in this environment.

        I have no faith in the SAD technology.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        It is possible that this was not a scam, but simply a problem of not doing enough testing. Or maybe not understanding what your instruments are telling you. I think there’s a bit of stretched truth in the 3-4 months quote – they are not saying how often they needed to put the batteries on-charge between runs, or how long the runs were and how many kilowatt-hours they got from a run. If you plug in a “real-world” load such as an electric hob (ring) or fan-heater, then it is thermostatically or timer controlled and will not draw its rated 1 or 2 kW all the time – it would burn out or overheat the room. You need a known load and measurements of the volateg and current with true RMS meters (and they are only normally valid for certain waveforms and frequencies).

        “Real” scientists can also be fooled into thinking something works when it doesn’t, and also (as we know on Nickelpower) they can be fooled the other way too. The best way round this is sufficient testing.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “It is possible that this was not a scam, but simply a problem of not doing enough testing…”

        Like the guy that thought he was transmuting carbon to iron with a microwave oven.

      • Bob Says:

        Simon – If they truly can get this type of operation (3 months) then they are onto something. It would seem like battery replaced by banks of supper caps with a charge circuit topping off the caps might make it run. A very small input of power from the power company could keep it topped off.
        I sure think they need to look at battery technology to see what type works best and what manufacturer was best. They sould go talk to battery manufacturers and see if they could help.

        If nothing else, this could be a way to get very efficient generators. I would be happy with a 90% electricity reduction from the power company.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – the microwave experiment was so daft that I didn’t spend much more time on it than watching the video. The “test” for Iron was simply using a magnet – and Carbon will show magnetic properties after such treatment.

        Bob – If the SAD people had given a device to Sterling Allan, and he had reported a failure after 3 months but otherwise that it worked for days without charging the battery from the power company electricity, then I would accept that it worked but needed further development – I think SA is honest if a bit gullible. As it is the promises to deliver a device (working or not) has not been kept (like the rest of these things where perpetual motion of some sort is promised).

        I thus don’t believe that it really works, even though there is some possibility that it could.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I would like to know what happened between SA and Rossi. Prior to SA’s trip to South Africa and Greece, SA claimed to have a financial connection to Rossi. Maybe Rossi objected to SA’s meeting with Def…or maybe SA staged the divorce in order to gain Def’s ear.

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