Next Week!

Stirling Allen, “In the coming few weeks, they will be having at least seven different groups come in to test their device, beginning with the Greek government next week. The results from each group will be published.  Each group will have 48 hours to test the device and a control to which they can compare it.”

http://pesn.com/2012/02/13/9602039_Hope_from_Athens_found_in_Cold_Fusion/

I know, Stirling Allen, flake of the month.  While Mr. Allen is willing to believe anything that he is told, I have no reason to believe that he doesn’t accurately report what he is told.

There is a lot more in this article that is worth reading.   Please read it.  I think that the amount of information that we have out of Defkalion has doubled since the last report.   They operate at 450c to 900c!

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56 Responses to “Next Week!”

  1. brucefast Says:

    I think its right that the Greek government be the first to test the Defkalion. That’s great! And the Greek government will be highly motivated to shout it from the mountaintops.

    Further, Greece is hugely into shipping, I believe. Can you imagine them getting their ships powered by cold fusion in short order? That’d be a boon to their economy.

    I thought this rather profound — for a Stirling Allen:

    he’d [Rossi'd] rather be right and alone than give in a little and work as a team. Hence, once again, interpersonal conflicts (40%) become the most predominant obstacle that impedes the progress of free energy technology, far more than any other obstacle: getting the technology right (20%), finances (20%), men in black (10%) [I'm not quite sure what to ascribe that last s10% to, of what obstacles typically have to be overcome to get to market.].

  2. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    I bet Rossi fell out with Allan when Allan diverted his attention to South Africa and Defkalion.

  3. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    “They operate at 450c to 900c!”

    If this is true, it sounds like Defkalion is ready for a steam powered dynamo. Bet GE and Honda are chomping at their bits.

    • Bob Says:

      If I remember write, they claim to be able to produce a 5MW system, so they could very quickly be major power producers.

      I had trouble understanding the following:

      Sterling Allen: “The Hyperion contains nine reaction vessels, each producing 5 kW of heat. Whether you just want 5 kW or 45 kW, you will purchase the same unit. If a person only wants 5 kW, then the reaction vessels will rotate one after another until all are used up. So the duration will be 4.5 years (each vessel is designed to last 6 months). But that doesn’t take into consideration the inevitable loss of hydrogen. They agreed with me that this is yet an unknown — how long the vessel will actually remain charged and ready to go.”

      If I read this correctly I can use it as a 45 KW system if I choose. With 900 C I should start shopping for a home turbine!

  4. Simon Derricutt Says:

    This story and the comments add more information. It is quite possible that Defkalion did find out how Rossi made his eCat. The eCat still takes an hour to warm up and produce power, yet Defkalion say 5 minutes or so for theirs. The Defkalion device must therefore be using a different technology. If Rossi could make his start in 5 minutes, I think he would have done this, too. I think Defkalion saw where Rossi was going wrong and worked on that problem, but Rossi will not do a redesign from scratch to fix the start-up/control problem.

    So – do you buy the eCat and support Rossi, or buy into the better technology? History says that Edison’s light-bulbs were better than Swann’s, and so Edison swept the market. The same is likely to happen with Ni/H LENR devices. There will be teething problems with both, and the cost of getting either will go down rapidly as other manufacturers reverse-engineer and build their own versions (maybe licensed, maybe not – look at the problems Dyson had).

    Sterling Allen has published a lot of rubbish, but also he’s publicised real technologies. I think he’s reported truthfully what he has been told, and has thus performed a valuable service, though some who have invested in such daft technologies may disagree. Tough – they should be knowledgeable investors to get into start-ups trying to bend the currently-known laws of physics. I don’t expect a journalist to be able to decide what is really possible and what really isn’t – a lot of scientists have that problem too. As such, Mr. Allen’s approach is fine by me – he says what he sees and tries to be truthful. I don’t see the reason he’s only bumping Defkalion up to position 3 in his top 5 though – maybe he thinks the totally free 5KW fuel-less generator is closer to production?

  5. psi Says:

    The South African generator is already for sale. That’s why.

    • brucefast Says:

      Hate to say this, psi, but most of us have seen a lot of free energy machines come and go. “Here, buy one” is hardly enough to cause us to get excited.

      Though the hyper-skeptic Ian Bryce thinks that we don’t have a skeptical bent, this new device proves that we do.

  6. psi Says:

    I’m not saying it is what it is claimed to be, I’m just explaining SA’s rationale. Please don’t put more into my words than are there. I was attempting to address Simon’s question. I understand the history.

    Thanks. Peace out.

    • brucefast Says:

      I see what you’re saying. You and Simon are both discussing Mr. Allen’s perspective on the thing.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Thanks psi, that does explain it. Guess I’ll have to wait for SA’s full article as promised.

      Having watched “free energy” machines for years, and still no real ones to actually buy, it’s really not surprising that none of us are quick to hail a new one. I don’t know how SA keeps his enthusiasm….

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Having read what SA has so far published on the South African over-unity design, it looks like a pair of batteries driving a motor, the motor drives a generator, and the generator charges another pair of batteries. When the first pair of batteries are exhausted, they are switched with the second pair. If this really works, then all the batteries are not actually needed since you could charge the first pair whilst running the motor. You could do away with the batteries altogether. It requires either the batteries, motor or generator (or all of them?) to put out more joules than they receive. As such, the over-unity battery, motor or generator could be sold on its own, rather than using a loop. This is not the way it appears to be done, so I feel the likelihood of a scam is extremely high. SA may get cold very quickly when the batteries run out.

      Sorry Mr. Allan, but Rossi or Defkalion seem a better bet – at least the physics and the business plans are believable with them.

      • brucefast Says:

        You clearly have either more data or more imagination than I have. Where has Stirling published anything about the nature of the new device?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – somewhere halfway down http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/#Follow-up you’ll find a short description matching what I said above, but stated with a lot more credulity. I just checked – it’s still there. Feb 10th Johannesburg…. Needs to be read, but not enjoyable.

      • brucefast Says:

        Found it.
        I wonder how these guys are pulling off a demo that works long enough to impress anyone.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        No idea about how they manage it. Let’s wait until SA makes a report on it – I’m pretty sure he is honest in what he writes. Could be I’ll need some sauce for my beret (to make it edible) if there really is something to the Bedini motor type of perpetual motion. They’ve let him take one away with him for free so he can publicise it. If it does work, then you would expect it to work as long as the batteries can still be charged/discharged, which could be years.

        No details on battery size/weight or rated capacity, but 5kW is going to use up capacity pretty quick so if it lasts more than a few days it’s either real over-unity free energy or there’s something LENR happening in the batteries. Either way we’ll know fairly soon, I hope.

      • brucefast Says:

        Days! Batteries aren’t that good. Running the machine and taking no power out should be a rather short-lived process. Sucking 5kw out should drain the batteries in well under an hour — unless this thing is a heck of a lot bigger than I think it is.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Somewhere else in that data he was talking about $5000 just to ship it back home – it may be quite large and heavy. It’s hard to tell from the photos just how big it is. They could be big batteries…. Which chemistry in the batteries – I don’t know. Note that NiMH (Nickel-metal-hydride) batteries are rechargeable and may have unforeseen properties if charged with pulses of high voltage. There are hydrogen and nickel and excitation energy in the same place – possibility of reaction, at least.

        I stated days to allow for uncertainties about size and capacity of the batteries – really no data yet. An overlong time for batteries to run down, but if it does function as advertised then I’d be pretty annoyed if it failed that quick.

        This is an interesting one, even though I don’t believe it can be true. They either believe it themselves or they are certain that SA won’t find the hidden earth-wire power-supply when he installs it (or notice the power bills not going down).

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        One other thing – look at the comments by Jac on that link at 06:16:30 today (15 Feb). Not that I know the guy, but that looks real and it sounds like he knows what he’s talking about. It gets more interesting.

      • brucefast Says:

        All I’ll say is that if two truly unrelated NFE devices are revealed all but simultaneously, it’ll seriously weird me out.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        It’s interesting enough to take a day off the other stuff and run a test on an NiMH battery. With a sig-gen, a MOSFET and a coil and a few diodes I could set up a dummy system and see how long the battery takes to discharge with a set load. End of next week, when I’m home.

        The world (our part of it, anyway) is in need of nearly-free energy, and this does look like the year it may happen in several ways – check with Bob on his work.

      • brucefast Says:

        Interesting note on the South African Device (SAD). It is no longer on Stirling Allen’s top 5 list. I presume it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.

        Good thing, ‘cos I’ve been planning based on a heat energy system, steam or stirling engines, etc. I don’t know what I’d do if a direct to electricity device were real.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Not only that, but the whole article about it has pretty well disappeared. Last SA post was that his document was written 20 Feb and awaiting approval from SAM (South African Millionaire). Seems like Mark Dansie turned up with test equipment and was not allowed to measure anything so he went home again.

        Oh well. I’ll still try the little battery test out, since it it a very good way of getting hydrided nickel powder cheaply and mass-production makes this a simple one if it works. Lower probability now, but high gains if it works – still seems a good bet to take. It will be extremely amusing if I get this to work, since the idea was triggered by a scam.

  7. Roger Bird Says:

    I haven’t even finished reading the rather long entry, and I gotta say that it is almost certainly time for the patho-skeptics to log out as goof-balls and log back in with different handles. This is the most promising and exciting hot-air that we have seen so far.

    I confess that it still seems just too good to be true. It is as though God wants us all to face entirely new challenges (of the paris-hilton type, having way more than human beings can handle).

  8. Bob Says:

    Free energy is like looking for the fountain of youth or prospecting for gold, everyone has hopes of finding the answer for what it will mean to society. I believe that is why Free Energy has lasting appeal.

    The device from South Africa looks a lot like the John Bedini ideas. There is a guy that posts on Vortex that is claiming a similar device and has a video, that you couldn’t tell was happening. He does show a motor taking off and charging capacitors. I have read some of the statements, but guess I’m not smart enough as I don’t understand what they are say.

    With a unit in hand, it should take about a week to know how real this thing is.

    I see where defkalion plans to announce 18 of their licensees shortly. Seeing the names will say a lot, looking for some reputable names.

    • brucefast Says:

      I am much more interested in having the Greek government test their thing for 2 days. That’ll be awfully conclusive. Further, I wouldn’t be caught dead being one of their licensees without some equivelant testing.

      • Bob Says:

        I agree, nothing will do more for the whole issue than real tests by real companies. So much of the arguing hopefully will subside.

  9. brucefast Says:

    Also note that our first independent official tests are starting on 24th of February 2012.

    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6300&sid=cac56d83772ab8dca408a66e2489187b#p6300

    Further:

    Will this test be streamed live? when will results be published?
    Many Thanks

    Yes, if the “donor” agrees, we will have no problem
    Thank you for asking

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      OK, from a week tomorrow we may have the pleasure of watching the various skeptics on this blog find a gracious way to recant. This could be fun, seeing who accepts the new data and who just rejects it out-of-hand.

  10. Miff Says:

    Unfortunately there will most likely not be any new data.

    Just delays and delays while more investors pay for their territories

    Hope not but likely considering what has been said elsewhere .

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Yes, this “paying for territories” bit is always worrying with unproven technology. I hope those shelling out the money have seen better demos than we have.

      If the demos are not convincing, then Defkalion will be dead in the water. Considering who they are (see Roger Bird’s post on the people involved) this would seem to be unlikely, so I’m still optimistic.

      Don’t expect new data, just the same data but with better safeguards so more believable….

    • brucefast Says:

      I don’t know about the other guys, but before I shelled out millions of dollars, I’d want proof. As I have said elsewhere, providing “the proof” is supported by the Defkalion business plan. If the Feb 24 event doesn’t happen, and if a couple of months go by with no actual demos, it’ll be hard for Defkalion’s reputation.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Miff, the “pay for territories” deal is Rossi’s thing. Defkalion is not doing that. And they are not exactly huggy-kissy face.

      And I will bet you $10 that Defkalion will start their tests on time on Feb. 24th.

  11. brucefast Says:

    “DGT [Defkalion] had said recently that they would be willing to accept the challenge to successfully demonstrate LENR in return for $1 million from [Dick] Smith.”

    http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/02/dick-smith-to-work-with-defkalion-to-arrange-testing/

    Interesting! I know they haven’t done it yet, but if they have what they say they have, Mr. Smith will be one million dollars poorer or will have his reputation besmirched.

  12. Bob Says:

    There was a meeting in Italy led by celani posted on the website. The meeting in Italian will be posted on Youtube, but in Italian. There was a summary of the meeting posted on Vortex.

    http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg63441.html

    It appears the testing may not go that smooth.

  13. Miff Says:

    Roger where is my $10. What has happened to the Defkalion tests. I bet you $10 that no real expert from the government is involved.

    How long will you keep believing as the results from any test are endlessly delayed?

  14. Miff Says:

    Does anyone know what’s happened to the name of the goverment expert.
    Could it be that no reputable government expert wants to be linked with these people ?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Miff, you are a pathological skeptic. NO ONE here thinks that Defkalion or Rossi have made their case; they are both on probation. People with better memories than mine will mention several government officials who have said that LENR is real.

      If I said that fish oil helps physically and emotionally in so many ways, you would say that it is not so, despite the fact that the scientific evidence is completely overwhelming. You are not interested in evidence. You are interested in being hope-averse. You are ill.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Roger

        If you are doubtful about something, you are by definition sceptical. The scientific evidence that fish oil cures rickets in children is overwhelming, and therefore few are sceptical.

        That fish oil capsules improve the IQ or emotional state of already healthy children is much less well supported, and more people are sceptical.

        If sceptics are ill or insane, then you mut be ill or insane for subjecting Defkalion or Rossi even to “probation”.

        However, I don’t believe you when you say Rossi or Defklion are “on probation”. You are deluding yourself. You avidly accept any nonsense, and are impressed by the lunatic Sterling Allen’s preposterous reports from Athens to the extent of denouncing sceptics as goof balls. And calling people insane for requiring evidence before accepting an allegedly world changing revolution in scientific theory is just plain silly.

        Rossi was hailed by cryofusionists last year as the answer to all scepticism. Now they are backtracking like crazy as their hero’s promises are belied, his lies become more evident, his financial shenanigans more clearly revealed, and his slanderous invective against critics more embarrassingly absurd.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig, I am happy to be a skeptic. Being a skeptic does not include calling people crooks. A skeptic is honest with him/her self and realizes that he/she does not know if Rossi is a crook. The label “skeptic” does not mean that you and I agree. You are a patho-skeptic who deliberately and consciously avoids looking at the evidence.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Craig – In my opinion the majority of Sterling Allan’s reports are delusions or scams, but some aren’t. If you read the comments in this blog, you will find that most of us do not doubt that Rossi and Defkalion have something that works; what we are sceptical about is whether they have something ready for market that works every time. Again if you read the comments, you’ll find that none of us were impressed by Sterling Allen’s reports, either about Rossi or the SAD, in fact we ripped him to shreds. We are skeptics, but can be convinced by good evidence. We remain unconvinced by fabricated evidence or non-rigorous measurements.

        The evidence for LENR is overwhelming, but theory has still to catch up – the revolution is in the technology, not the theory. If you don’t accept the evidence of LENR happening then you are not insane, just blinkered. I can’t see a post here where anyone is called insane – kindly point it out. Roger called patho-skeptics goof-balls on Valentine’s day, but patho-skeptics tend to not believe any evidence that goes against their beliefs – I think a better term would be dogmatists.

        It could be you are reading different posts than I am. Or maybe just interpreting the words differently. Whatever it is , it would be better to not fire off unfounded accusations at the rest of us. Please read a bit more carefully.

  15. Craig Binns Says:

    Simon

    People with states of mind describable by the prefix “patho-” are by definition insane. Roger makes many such accusations. Read them. Do a search of the blog and you will find him referring to me as “moral slime”. These are harsh words, but I don’t mind.

    My accusations of credulity (not accusations of moral delinquency) on the part of some posters here, seem to me to be well founded. All the more so, following Defkalion’s effective disappearance. I think, really and truly, that you are being deceived by conscious and premeditating swindlers, whose tactic is to misdirect you by pointing to the obscure and disputed field of LENR scientific research, which is the major source of their scam legend. They are drawing you, along with contributors to scores of other blogs, unwittingly into a web of fraud which separates some people, whose minds are shallower than yours, from their money.

    They are using you in the same way that Stalin used and deceived “believers” who visited the then Soviet Union between the twenties and the fifties, in order to project a completely false image of his country, and conceal the lamentable conditions that in fact prevailed there. Stalin used obscure and disputed political, rather than scientific, theory as the main source of his scam legend. He was largely successful, but in 1956 when some of the truth about these hideous conditions was finally officially admitted, the surviving “believers” felt like fools. And that is what indeed they were. Their absurd books quietly moulder on thousands of forgotten bookshelves. But I read them quite frequently, to reinforce my understanding of human gullibility. Of course the CF energy contraption swindle is vastly and incomparably less harmful and important than the Soviet Five Year Plan deceit, but the principle is in my estimation the same, if not the scale.

    Pathoskeptic that I am!

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Craig – I’ve said before that both Rossi and Defkalion look like scams, and the current turnabout by Defkalion is pretty lousy PR and adds another tick in the negative box. On the other hand, I have no reason to doubt that what they say they can do is possible and indeed should be almost expected after this amount of time. If I were them, I wouldn’t have allowed derogatory comments on my company’s website in the first place. Did you look again at their site? The forum is still there, people are still adding to it, it’s just cut down somewhat and maybe the moderators are putting more effort into cutting out the crap – there’s a lot of it.

      So Defkalion hasn’t gone yet. Neither have Rossi, Brillouin or BLP.

      Maybe you are a bit too sceptical. Read Krivits’s current articles on SPAWAR – looks like a bit of scared government to me. If that doesn’t make you realise that LENR is real, then I don’t know what will apart from owning one.

      Again, maybe I am not sceptical enough, but knowing that something is possible certainly spurs me to make it real, and I’m not asking you for development money either. Personally I don’t give a toss if Defkalion et al aren’t telling the whole truth about what they’ve got, or if investors lose money on it (it’s not my money, pension funds do not invest in such things). I do think that they are close to getting a production-ready version out, but close in this case means maybe a couple of years. Their plan will almost certainly slip, and maybe the small technical problem may prove harder to crack than they thought.

      So – I’m not being used by anyone. OK, maybe the odd Government scam and a few advertisements that aren’t true, and the cost-of-living spiral that is driven more by government than the market and…. At least, Defkalion, Rossi and the other versions of cheap nuclear power are not taking any money from me, and it’s certainly interesting to watch the circus (clowns and snakes!). If they come up trumps, I win along with everyone else; if not, things continue as they were.

      Being too sceptical means that you will probably lose out on some real opportunities. Being not sceptical enough means you may get conned occasionally, but this may be outweighed by the bigger gains on the ideas that pay off. Knowing just how sceptical to be is the trick that falls between the two and wins you most.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I could just now NOT get into Defkalion.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Roger – I just tried Defkalion, both forum and website (and on the netbook instead of the PC this time) and got into it fine. Maybe they do have a face-recognition process running.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        LOL

        Perhaps they exclude people who have been critical of them, except that I have never been critical of them. (:->)

    • Roger Bird Says:

      And Craig, try also to remember that I compliment you occasionally; the above post was very well written and without having to insult anyone or slanderize anyone.

      And I have to say that your parallel was excellent, although we have yet to see the mass graves with cold fusion.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        You sure don’t sweat much for a fat girl.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Iggy, it’s funny, but I don’t know what it means. (:->)

        See, here is the deal. Craig, just exactly like everyone else, is inherently infinitely precious. How he manifests, how he acts, is not necessarily so great, just like the rest of us. So I can continue to care about him as a human being and still think that sometimes his behavior is not acceptable.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Advice from an experienced older guy to young guy on how to be successful with women. “Shower them with flowery words….flatter them.”

        So the young guy says to his date, “You sure don’t sweat much for a fat girl.”

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig writes good copy, no spelling errors, grammar errors. He is a good critical thinker about physical, technological matters. But he is too FAT.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        But in spite of that, he doesn’t sweat much.
        He must have a low COP.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        Roger, Yes you’re right about the mass graves. As I said, the scale of these things is completely different.

        However, if Rossi was right he would save as many lives as Stalin destroyed. But he’s not right, and I’m certain he knows it. If he is a swindler, as I believe, he’s a particularly repellent one, to raise and betray such hopes, purely for personal gain.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Swindlers don’t give a rat’s ass about other people’s hopes.

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