COP greater than 10 demonstrated at MIT

As part of the IAP Course on COLD FUSION at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Mitchell Swartz, JET Energy, and Prof. Peter Hagelstein demonstrated a significant energy gain greater than 10! (

Now we have 3 dogs in the race.  There are now three separate organizations that are generating useful COP from LENR.  2012 is the year that LENR denial will crumble!

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63 Responses to “COP greater than 10 demonstrated at MIT”

  1. Roger Bird Says:

    2012 is the year when the world as we know it will end. And science will get a much needed lesson in humility.

    • Sophareth Camsonne Says:

      Science is humble, but establishing scientistes are not.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I think that Sophareth Camsonne meant “Science is humble, but established scientists are not.”

        And Sophareth is right. The community of scientists and established scientists are not humble. Even Isaac Newton was a vindictive bastard.

  2. Bob Says:

    This is great news! Does anyone know much about this company and how they produce this? I wonder if it’s Nickel or Palladium?

    • brucefast Says:

      Their website is:, note the similarity to the “Cold Fusion Times” website.

      Dr. Swartz appears to be their lead scientist. He is listed in “Replicators” as having reproduced both Palladium and Nickel reactions. There are reports on the website that include published papers on Nickel reactions. However, from looking at their site it looks like he is using Palladium. Not that it makes that much difference, we now have three sources reporting COP significantly greater than 3.

      But don’t worry, he just miswired his demo, that’s all.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bruce, can I call you Bruce? You are really cute.

      • JerryB Says:

        this is exciting news – but don’t tell the Australian skeptics they will blame it on the wiring, lets give them a ring and see what they think. LOL

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        re the miswiring:
        I’ve been posting about CF on my facebook page for close to a year. An FB “friend”, a former astronaut, is the only person that has commented on my posts. I would say he is a hopeful skeptic. Months ago he commented that his physicist mentor thinks that CF may be an unknown phenomenon where power is accidentally sucked from the grid, without being indicated on the grid meter. My FB pal is anxious to see CF demonstrated self-sustained, disconnected from the grid.

        I would add, disconnected and displaced some distance from the grid.

        I don’t think we’re experiencing this phenomenon but it would be worth investigating.

        You’ve probably heard of sticking a bare fluorescent tube in soil under high-voltage transmission lines with the
        disconnected bulb lighting up. There are also numerous cases where dairy cattle get sick from soaking up low grade current from leaked power around the dairy barn.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Iggy, I have so much respect for you that if you think that it is not ridiculous, then I believe you. But when I first read it, before I got to the part where you said that it should be investigated, I laughed my head off. It sounds like a very desperate attempt to keep one’s perspective on nuclear energy and not entertain any new ideas on the subject.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        It would be a simple experiment. Worth investigating before spending millions for CF reactors for Antarctica.

      • brucefast Says:

        Iggy, “You’ve probably heard of sticking a bare fluorescent tube in soil under high-voltage transmission lines with the
        disconnected bulb lighting up.”

        You may also notice that your car’s radio will become staticky when you are near high-voltage lines. There is no mystery here. That said, if Rossi can suck 20kw for a sustained period of time from the air with a device the size of a breadbox, he still is missing his calling.

        I strongly suspect that your astronaut friend is suggesting something similar to what the Aussie suggested. You may want to show him that the same guys who gave him his astronaut title also say that LENR is a valid technology. If that doesn’t impress him, maybe he isn’t an astronaut as much as he is a space cadet.

      • Roger Bird Says:


      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Hey, I was looking up another facebook friend when I noticed the former astronaut’s work title:
        Project Manager at Siemens PLM Software

        BTW, he never claimed to fly as an astronaut. He was in the astronaut corps but was eliminated due to Crohn’s Disease. That’s one of the diseases which is claimed to benefit from Helminthic Therapy.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      JET are using Palladium/Deuterium, according to their site. More good news, but they state a gain of around 300,000J over the control during around 4000 minutes, if I can read their graph. Just enough to boil 5 cups of tea… (4.2 J/g/K, 200g water/cup, raised 80K = 67,200 J). Impressive in it’s way, but it’s going to cost a lot of palladium to keep it warm in the Yukon.

      Iggy – Since the main supply is at 60Hz in the states, it would need a very long aerial or a very strong surge in the main supply (blowing trips in the power stations) to get even the 20KW by pickup. This is something you might see in space with solar storms, but down here on the ground we are shielded from almost all of this. Such a surge would probably burn out all the mobile phones, too. It’s probably not acceptable as an explanation without supporting evidence such as burnt-out electrical apparatus in the vicinity.

      A hidden induction coil could do the job, but this would need to be set up in secret and would need a lot of power itself.

  3. JerryT Says:

    Does this mean that these scientists have now replicated and verified P & F 1989 experiments? If so who then gets the first Nobel award?

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I’m betting on Obama.

    • brucefast Says:

      No! No! Nasa said that they replicated Pons & Fleishmann back in 1989! There have been hundreds of replications! SPAWAR (U.S. Navy) went very public with their replications of P&F back in 2009. They stated that undergrads at UCSD had replicated the results 3 years running.

      The announcement here isn’t of replication, its of getting a useful level of energy out of the reaction.

      Do Pons & Fleischmann deserve the Nobel? Oh yes they do!

      • JerryT Says:

        Brucefast, You are correct. The problem is none of these research projects were reported in a timely manner, usually many years (NASA), after P & F were thrown to the wolves by that very scientific community that now claims cold fusion (LENR, LANR) as a realty.

        However, I am glad to see we agree on the Noble prize winner though…

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – right on all counts. P+F did the experiment in the first place since they expected to get “cold fusion”. They were forced to publish too early (money pressure) and didn’t get all their ducks in a row before the world knew about it. They deserve the Nobel for this insight, and for the perseverance in continuing the experiment for the 2 months needed to get a reaction. Commercial pressure (again) meant that they couldn’t publish all they knew, hence the problems in replication initially.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Please let me add: No matter who wins in the current race to commercialize LENR, Andrea Rossi was instrumental in getting the ball rolling for ALL of the excitement and attempts to make LENR commercial. Even if he is efforts have not accomplished getting a product to market, he is the ONE who has garnered all the attention for LENR, all the research by us LENR Internet moles, and started all the efforts by everyone else.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Rossi marches to his own drummer.

    • Rockyspoon Says:

      Of all the telling anecdotes, the clincher was that P & F thought for sure at least one lab would call them and ask how they did the experiment. But not a single lab called–they all charged off doing what they thought would work.

      Alas, had anybody asked, they would have gotten the reply that it took P & F four weeks of the Pd cathode soaking in heavy water before the first signs of the reaction were detected.

      The US government required an answer in TWO weeks!

      Epic, Epic Fail.

  4. JerryT Says:

    Iggy, very funny, but sadly you could be correct…

  5. Sophareth Camsonne Says:

    My tributes to SPAWAR.

  6. Bob Norman Says:

    Many times in history the guy that gets the credit is the guy that makes it a commercial success. I think its to early to call, but Rossi may have the inside track on that.

    Then again, If Obama gets it, I’m sure he will give a shout out to all the appropriate people.

    By the way, Rossi mentioned on his blog today that he had a meeting with a vendor that went well and may give him higher efficiency in electricity generation.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Please, people, check this out: It seems like they have already beaten Rossi, Defkalion, and everyone else.

      I understand that they have only a COP of 3.

      I don’t see how or why we can dismiss these guys.

      [I think "Brillouin" would rhyme with "billion". Please correct me if I am wrong.]

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Pretty slick web site. I’ll bet it’ll be considerably more expensive than Rossi’s projected price, but the more the merrier.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I think that if you read very carefully, they have gotten to COP = 2. This is way less than it should be, but way better than “cold fusion is bogus” or hot fusion < 1. But I am very happy that they are making progress.

        It is also another group that has duplicated LANR. Bruce Fast should include them in his list.

      • brucefast Says:

        They’re already on the list.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Roger, this company has been around for a while and doesn’t seem to be progressing. I know they need money, but they are no further along than they were almost 2 years ago. They hit water with EMP pulses to get their reaction, seems like a little nickel powder could help. Its quite interesting in that the approach is so different.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        I am fully convinced that there will be many ways of generating LENR (CF) is possible with different methods. Rossi and defkalion have some divergence in their methodology. Brillouin has a very different approach and with different material. F&P used different material and physicists are talking of many other materials that might work. Bubble fusion I believe to be another variations of the same mechanism implemented in a different way.
        Even the noble engine they discuss on Peswiki I believe to possibly be the same thing. They have a mix of gases that they apply a magnetic field to and then hit it with a spark. They claim the gas switches to plasma and back, driving a cylinder repeatedly with no (little) fuel loss. From the description it has much of the same characteristics as what is being talked about for LENR.

        Some day, I think they will be a huge variation of methods made available commercially once the basic mechanism is known.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        They may have something that works, but they are trying to go back to Classical Physics to explain it, and since it won’t they have invented “Hydrinos” which are Hydrogen atoms that have gone to lower-than-ground-state energy. If such things existed, I think the astronomers would have seen the spectra somewhere – there would also be clues in some other experiments that they were there. Lack of such anomalies indicates that their theory is probably wrong. They’ve been a long time in the “Ready Next Year” stage and had a lot of money input. As Iggy says, it’s not going to be a cheap technology. Not a company to invest in, unless you really know better.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Speaking of price, I see where Rossi is now quoting $600 to
        $800 for his home unit. Actually that sounds a bit more realistic.

      • brucefast Says:

        “they have invented “Hydrinos”…”
        Simon, you sure? The only people I have heard talk about hydrinos is the blacklight people.

        I too am painfully dubious of the hydrino theory — even though I discount myself as a theoretician.

      • brucefast Says:

        Iggy, why is $600 to $800 more reasonable. Normally price is set by what the market will bear. I could save at least $1200 per heating season with this thing. I’d happily pay for 2 seasons to get one. That $2400.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I meant that $600 to $800 seems more economically feasible that his previous estimate of $400 to $500. The lower figures seemed too low for him to profit and grow his business.

        Yes, the normal startup model would be to charge what the market would bear and initially cater to customers that would have a greater need, like you in the far North, the military, remote mining, construction, etc.

        Apparently Rossi is trying to bypass the early adapter phase and jump right into mass production, ostensibly to undercut his competition.

      • brucefast Says:

        The last I had heard he had dropped his price to $1500.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Andrea Rossi
        February 7th, 2012 at 2:41 PM

        Dear Harold:
        Pre-order accepted.
        The price will be between 600 and 800 US$.
        The E-Cat will be able to be applied to any existing heater.
        Warm Regards,

      • Bob Norman Says:

        I missed the price hike. Did he state anywhere why the hike. Labor, materials or lack of competition. I’m sure nothing was said, more of a rhetorical question. 2000 ==> 500 ==> 800
        Looks like a damped oscillation from 3 points. Hopefully 650 will be the final number and a good one at that.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – Yes I made a mistake there. It was Blacklight not Brillouin. So much data….

  7. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Cool Light…..actually a cooling light.

    MIT over-unity LED.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Iggy – it may not break Conservation of energy but it does break Thermodynamics. As such I won’t believe it’s true until at least 1000 PhD physicists present me with a round-robin signed letter begging me to accept their results. It’s only MIT saying this after all. They could have misplaced the earth wire on their test.

    • brucefast Says:

      I read about this too, found it intriguing.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Tell me if I get this right: because of Brownian motion next to and perhaps in the lattice, the vibrations are causing electrons to do what normally the voltage is suppose to cause electrons to do. Did I get this right?

      If so, this is one of the Maxwell type machines that utilize quantum activity. I say that that is pretty freaking cool. I guarantee that when I was young, anything like this would have been dismissed without too much thought.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Roger – I think what is happening is that, because of the quantum fluctuations in energy levels of the electrons, and because they carry heat as well as electricity, the higher-energy electrons have a greater chance of getting across the barrier. Greater chance, when we are talking about billions, translates into certainty that this will happen. The higher-energy (hotter) electrons that cross the junction therefore take heat from the diode in producing the light.

        Yes, this is a real example of Maxwell’s Demon (or Daemon as I prefer it spelt). It is much more important than it appears (only 60 picowatts!) since, like being just a tiny bit pregnant, the 2nd Law is being broken by a small amount. Since MIT have measured it, it is most likely carefully measured and good science (and they understand the implications so they’ve been doubly careful). I’d like to see the Wiki writers tar this as pathological science….

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Simon, that was excellent. And even my son said “excellente”, although he may have just been mimicking me.

        Understand, Simon, that the Wiki writers are you and me and everyone else. I suppose there is an editorial board in very controversial cases that has to decide what is going to be printed. This editorial board is going to quietly go off and eat crow soon. I wonder if Starbucks serves up crow.

      • brucefast Says:

        Roger, having tried a couple of edits on wikipedia, I am coming to understand that each topic has an assigned administrator. All changes to the topic are approved by him/her. There also seems to be some sort of management board that deals with over/under zealous topic administrators.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I have to say that this uncertainty, quantum positioning of electrons is far more revolutionary than my Browning motion theory. I prefer the quantum chance positioning of electrons. I just love scientific revolutions. I told my precious darling boy that he is entering a whole new world, that this sort of thing was pure speculation when I was his age.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Roger – the quantum theory was laid down before I was born. We keep on finding more things that are easily explained by it, but not by classical physics. So basically, accept it as valid until the Next Big Theory supercedes it. Don’t worry if you don’t understand it – very few do. Look at the concepts and the rules, and apply them. It works. There are rules to chaos, though this seems self-contradictory. Get your son a primer on it so it’s not so much of a shock when he needs to learn it.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I just primed him, and I will continue to do so as per your suggestion.

        To tell you the truth, I don’t find quantum mechanics to be the least bit confusing. Although I suppose if I was to encounter the mathematics I would be completely out of my league.

        Little particles can’t decide whether they are, and when they do decide, sometimes they get captured by other nuclei which happen to be closer. That is certainly not rocket science, unless of course I were to delve into it.

      • brucefast Says:

        Roger, don’t die over being confused about quantum mechanics. I have even less understanding of it than Einstein did. Its just weird.

        My hair dresser, on the other hand, is an expert on quantum mechanics. Its kinda cool, I get a haircut and a comedy routine at the same time. Now that’s quantum theory in action.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Perhaps some comedy particles couldn’t decide where they were and ended up in your hairdresser’s head.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Those are charm particles landing on top.

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