The impact of NFE on the third world.

By Anony Mole.

• What does the third world lack that nearly free energy would provide?
• What challenges would they face initially and years down the road?
• What are some of the systemic changes that would occur if NFE were widely available?

Abundant fresh and pure water, enjoyed by all first world nations is first on all humanitarian’s lists for third world countries. Greatly improved hygiene would be a top priority. Direct health benefits and the elimination of waterborne diseases another. Agricultural a natural third.

Power for refrigeration, lighting, heating, cooling, welding, construction, transportation, information. All of these we take for granted that are rare and dear to the 2 billion impoverished.

Food would still be a problem I fear – land for food would be hoarded, lorded over. Despots and vigilantes would still rule such places. These power freaks would be the first challenge to dispersion of NFE in such places as Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc. The actual distribution of LENR units would be throttled through such magistrates and bandits. Until power units became as cheap and ubiquitous as plastic bottles, they would be a controlled commodity.

It is well known that as standard of living rises, natality, or birth rate, drops. In fact, fertility drops so low in countries like Japan and northern Europe, that worker shortages are predicted in the coming decades. Countries like China, India, and Bangladesh, along with their third world countries, need only have their standards of living lifted so far by NFE that the Earth’s population explosion ceases and retreats.

Imagine if those 2 billion impoverished all had education, health wealth and prosperity, think of the invention and and progress they themselves could make – all on their own! Humanity is missing out on their contribution because we have not figured out how to lift them out of poverty yet.

But also imagine the environmental impact an extra 2 billion middle class people would have on the planet. Energy might not be a problem but everything resource based will surely be.

We’ll definitely need Mars’, the Moon’s and other resources in the coming centuries if nothing more than to house, entertain and bedeck 10 billion people in bluejeans, iEyes, Coke, personal hovercrafts and pocket Crays.

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67 Responses to “The impact of NFE on the third world.”

  1. brucefast Says:

    Anony, thanks for the post. I like your term NFE (Nearly Free Energy), though I do know that it doesn’t originate with you. I do find it accurate, however.

    I think the biggest advantages that NFE will provide the third world is that it will basically eliminate infrastructure for energy and communications. This will make the world feel very much smaller to those who are now without power, phones etc.

  2. Bob Says:

    My view on this subject is probably very unpopular, but never the less I’ll give it. NFE will have to be given and administered to Somalia, Afghanistan etc, for they will not be able to use it on their own. I have known people in the peace core, my wife being one of them and they paint a dismal picture. Most of these people are barely smart enough to stay alive. The PC goes in and sets up irrigation agriculture and tries to teach basic hygiene to no avail. They will do it when they help, but the minute they leave the village everything reverts back to the was it was before the P.C group game to help. I have talked with people that lived in Africa for 10 years and they flat believe that we are wasting out time, money and energy. We have feed Somalia for as long as I can remember, do they ever change or try to change their lives, no they roam the desert with their cows, repeating the starvation cycle. After 50 years I’m getting tired of seeing pictures of starving kids because they won’t learn and won’t change. Some people can’t be helped.

    The technology will be huge advantages to those that can use it properly. Vertical farming and advanced concepts will thrust society into a new era, the third word will benefit from what we give them and do for them. They can not afford or master even this simple technology. I know people who lived with them and they all feel its a waste of time trying.

  3. Jimmie Says:

    @Bob, do you have something against cows?

    • Bob Says:

      No, as a matter of fact I have a bunch of cows on my land. If your starving they aren’t a good crop for the effort. Beef is a luxury.

  4. Roger Bird Says:

    The suffering that is the result of NEEDS not being met will be reduced greatly, such as clean water, warmth, enough food, etc. The suffering that is the result of people chasing after the fulfillment of trivial desires to be happy will increase, such as over-eating, pornography, etc. The 3rd world will become more like us; 95% of our suffering is the result of us thinking that if we get that girl or that car or that hot fudge sundae we will be happy.

    The health profile of the 3rd world will change. They currently die from different problems than we do. They will start dying from heart disease and cancer rather than starvation and contagious diseases.

    For smart people in the 1st world, this will cause much more comfort. Smart people don’t go into debt. They don’t think that having dessert at every meal is a way to become happy and healthy. They don’t think that being unfaithful is a smart idea. Most of all, smart people realize that desires do make people happier.

    Dumb people will spend their way to unhappiness. They will continue to think that they can become happier if they can afford that Ferrari (which will still be expensive as heck because the Ferrari company makes them in order to be more expensive.). Dumb people will still think that using drugs recreationally will make them happy (I know. I used to be a dumb person.)

  5. Anony Mole Says:

    From a recent Washington Post article:

    “About 3 billion people in the developing world rely on stoves that burn wood, dung and other fuels that throw off soot. Switching to cleaner-burning stoves would help reduce short-term global warming while quickly improving local air quality. Soot particles fall out of the air in less than a week.

    But getting people to switch to cleaner-burning stoves is “easier said than done,” said Elizabeth Ransom, a spokeswoman for University Research Co. The group recently doled out $1.3 million in grants to three groups studying how to get people in Uganda and India to adopt cleaner-burning stoves, as some projects to introduce modern stoves “just didn’t take off.””

    Wow – 3 billion. LENR stoves anyone?

  6. Roger Bird Says:

    Ever since the latest NASA video today, I haven’t seen hide nor hair of Craig Binns. I wonder why.

  7. Neil Taylor Says:

    For those who may have missed it, here is the NASA announcement made today:

  8. Brad Arnold Says:

    When I told a friend about LENR, he got really angry when I suggested that this was a very good technology for third world countries. This reaction caught me completely by surprise.

    When asked why he was so angry, he told me that “people ought not to be given technology that they don’t understand.” What is meant by this is that he thinks 3rd worlders will get resources that they don’t deserve.

    Frankly, I would have never guessed some people feel that way, but it implies that there are more people out there who will resist “nearly free energy” because it will enable subsistence living.

    Just to make clear: I don’t feel that way (I have more of a “New Testament” attitude about the poor).

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I assume that this and other posts saying that many people in 3rd world countries will not adopt our technology is true. Culture runs deep, deeper than we can imagine. (I can’t imagine and refuse to believe that it is genetic.) However, LENR will eventually be adopted, but not by someone utterly different in culture flying in and giving it to them. It will be adopted gradually by neighbor learning from neighbor, neighboring village learning from neighboring village. It will take time, because cultural change takes time.

      • Anony Mole Says:

        I’ve read some fascinating whitepapers on the productivity levels of cultures vs. latitude. The broad conclusion is that in latitudes where seasons are obvious, a “work hard to save enough food for winter” mentality prevails. In the tropics, this ethic never develops. This can help explain why many cultures north of 30 degrees, North American, European, Chinese, Japanese, are so much more prosperous than those cultures within the tropics. Further studies also show that temperature affects work attitude; the hotter it is, the less humans want to work (and the more prone to anger we are).

        So, developing countries, which are mostly within the tropical zone, it might be said, are not entirely responsible for their lack of entrepreneurial drive and therefore the disdain we might feel toward them for this inadequacy. Move them all into temperate zones (not likely) and we might see what they could become.

        Given these premises, one could believe that it is the temperate cultures duty to support these equatorially challenged cultures with NFE and a path toward prosperity. Yes, a rather, “New Testament” like attitude (not that I subscribe to such, but I can acknowledge the notion).

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Anony Mole, you and other WILL like this site: You can correlate just about anything with anything, even over time.

        I know that when I was in the tropics, I did not want to work.

      • brucefast Says:

        “I can’t imagine and refuse to believe that it is genetic.” Its not genetic. Adoption studies make that clear. Take an infant out of a dysfunctional culture, raise him/her in a functional environment and his chance of success within that environment is much better than the chances of the one who was raised in the dysfunctional culture.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I am married to a Filipina, so I know that culture runs much deeper than we can even imagine.

        When something weird comes up with my wife, I ask myself, is this her, her family, or her culture. But it usually doesn’t matter. You just have to accept people the way that they are, and try to love them the way that they are. Being married to Loribelle has been an educational experience, one that other people of whatever ethnicity can never understand until they have been married to some of a greatly different ethnicity. And I strongly doubt that Peace Corp training would be enough to understand other cultures. And Loribelle also doubts that Peace Corp training would be enough to understand other cultures. Reading about it just doesn’t cut it.

      • Bob Says:

        My point in mentioning 3rd world adoption is based on culture and ability to adapt. Living in San Jose for many years I had friends of many races and cultures and saw huge differences, based on cultural issues. Asians do well because they have an incredible work ethic that is hard to match in intensity. Every culture has unique attributes, some good and some bad.

        My comment about the 3rd world not embracing the technology was based on the fact that they will not be able to afford it. If they have trouble buying food, an E-cat is out of the question. In addition, most do not have the technical knowledge to support even this simple technology. I base that on my wife’s experience in South America and the people that spent 10 or more years in Africa trying to help. They would spend countless hours teaching then how to garden and irrigate and build hand pumps and explain how they work and how to do basic repair. In almost every situation, as soon as the people helping left, they reverted to the old ways, even though they were shown what to do. Help would come back and it was like starting over. Education and basics need to be grasped before things will change. Aid to these people is never ending, as they are incapable of helping themselves. Many of the villages just do nothing when hard times hit. The people trying to help would ask why they don’t do X, Y or Z and the answer was always, we will just wait for the aid trucks.

        We have created a dependent society with always being there with food. Humanitarian, yes, but we have created millions of dependent people. Free energy? Its not free for us sending it or refueling it and most likely operating it for them. I object to constantly sending aid all over the world. Most countries given nothing or token amounts, but America thinks they are rich and should take care of the world. America needs to wake up as it is a broke country and has the biggest debt in the world. Every dollar we send for these humanitarian efforts burdens our children and grandchildren to the point that its obvious they will not have what we have. The US is like Donald Trump, when he walked out of Bankruptcy Court, he has been quoted as saying upon seeing a street bum that he is richer than him. I ow millions, at least he is dept free.

        Some may think I’m heartless, but I think it very is more important to provide for family and country than send our money to someone in another country. Especially if is ongoing without the basic problem of education being solved first.
        The Energy revolution will not help the 3rd world unless we supply it!

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bob, you do not need to apologize. You just need to duck to avoid the blows coming at you from the politically correct who feed their egos by thinking of themselves as being morally superior. It is obvious that many kinds of charity don’t work and make others dependent upon the givers.

  9. Craig Binns Says:


    Even a full-price sale will do, believe me!

  10. Bob Says:

    I believe the revolution just got bumped up in time this week. NASA’s announcement added real credibility. They are working on it, claim its real and stated that it produces huge amounts f energy, they wouldn’t say that unless they have proof, so to me a huge Validation as big or bigger than a Rossi demonstration has just happened.
    Part 2 of the accelerated revolution comes from the price announcement and the ability to change fuel independent of Rossi’s network. Having these two things change the equation for how fast this will spread. The cost will enable countless things to take off that may have languished on the back burner for years. With the new cost and implied simplicity I have mentally moved the time frame up from when you will see cars on the road. At these prices, who wouldn’t replace their home units to have heat and air conditioning. The savings is obvious and the conversion curve for adaptation just changed. That adaption rate hockey stick just moved in. The market is poised to explode.
    I’m betting Rossi has figured out simple controls that make it cook book technology allowing him to run with out the need for big hydrogen tanks and complex monitoring. I’m guessing the new found simplicity allows cooky cutter manufacturing and control, so Rossi has changed direction and will Produce modules for everyone to use in their design. He has the lead on being the home supplier which is huge and will make him more successful than Microsoft, but the new pricing and what I believe to be occurring will spark an instant revolution. We are about a year away for society changing. Five years from now the world will look different.

    • brucefast Says:

      “I believe the revolution just got bumped up in time this week. NASA’s announcement added real credibility.”

      I don’t get that. SRI has put out a video, SPAWAR put out a video 5 years ago. This is not Nasa’s first video. A couple of these other high end guys have put out videos. Why does this 3 minute video from Nasa make any difference?

      “a huge Validation as big or bigger than a Rossi demonstration has just happened.” I agree that the public declarations by the scientific community are much bigger validations than Rossi’s demonstrations. However, these too will pale in light of the validation of products for sale at Wal-Mart or Home Depot.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        brucefast, remember that you are an expert on these reports and such and most of the rest of us are still learning about all these things that are happening without the help of the mainstream news media. I was excited about the NASA video yesterday also; NASAs thumbs up on LENR was mostly just a rumor for me before yesterday.

  11. Neil Taylor Says:

    Roger Bird, I agree, most of the world, even most folks here in the USA, are ignorant of the changes we are privileged to be seeing and digesting on these blogs. Until the mainstream media wakes up that situation will continue…

  12. PMontpetit Says:

    I wouldn’t know where to begin to try and make some of the more “eugenically minded” people on this blog to take a hard look at their barely concealed prejudices and racism!
    The task is too huge. At least try to get educated about cultural diversity before commenting too much more on the ’3rd.’ world peoples and their abilities to cope and adapt!
    Parachuting our “marvelous culture” into societies and regions that have been surviving for millenia in their own fashion (and presumably have survived because they are in fact the best adapted) will of course not result in a transformation overnight. (how do you think you’d do trading in your Tom-Tom gps for a ‘songline’) But looking at the mess we’ve made of nearly everything, I wouldn’t be too quick to condemn anyone else.

    Given that the great great majority of pollution and environmental destruction is directly due to the ‘advanced countries’, let’s just get our house in order, if we can, and let time take care of the rest.

    • Anony Mole Says:

      You might want to review some of Hans Rosling’s videos in +Roger Bird’s supplied link: In there the evidence of cultures, thousands of years old, who would rather not wash their clothes by hand, seems apropos. Left to their own, said cultures may never rise of out the centuries long malaise they live within.

      That said, a recent episode of “Bizarre Foods w/Andrew Zimmer” showed that the Kalahari Bush People, a culture estimated to be 20 thousand years old, were just fine they way they were. They were happy and showed it. And Zimmer, I felt, even showed signs that his life may have a lower quality that those of the people he shared BBQ’d porcupine with. It was actually touching (astonishing, I know!).

      Also, I doubt very much that racism is evident in the posts here. It may seem so, but I would risk stating that the authors appeared to me not to want to admit that the evidence of charity and humanitarian aid was lost on certain cultures. Nevertheless, green, orange or purple, the discussion of the color of people’s skin has no place here.

      The fact remains, in the eyes of humane peoples, the developing nations need help. If it takes just one more lesson to teach the benefits of water purification or crop rotation, then one more lesson it must be.

      If NFE can assist in any way, to lift up such cultures, it is our duty as a singular species to see that it does.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Anony Mole, you are a gentlemen. Apparently I am not.

        But we should at least take a second look at our aid and see what it is that we are doing wrong. And we should try to learn from 3rd world people as well if as you say that are actually happier than we are (assuming that they are well-fed and warm.) I have alluded to it in several posts. We need to learn that true happiness comes from within. LENR will reduce the suffering based upon a lack of shelter and food, etc., and it will allow for the wonder of space travel to flourish, but it will only increase the opportunity for more people to become kardashian-ized.

        What a great word: kardashian-ized. I just invented it. (:->)

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Eyeopening National IQ Chart: (PC elite shouldn’t read)

      The World’s Dumbest Religion:–14349.asp

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Dear Iggy, I am not a PC elite, or even a PC peon. And I accept the truth of the Wikipedia article that you showed. I am, however, married to a Filipina, and so I have had 24 years to think about the matter. I agree that it would seem that I am much smarter than my wife (and of course one person does not a sample make); and she agrees with me. However, I am a social retard compared with her. The IQ test does not measure social skills or sweetness or compassion or wisdom or cultural wisdom. The IQ test is very good in testing exterior oriented things, like building machines. We can greatly contribute to other cultures by helping them build machines and dig wells and hopefully keep warm with an E-Cat. But we are desperately hurting in the sweetness department, the social harmony department, and other arenas of life that require feelings and perhaps abilities not covered by the IQ test.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Yep, IQ doesn’t do too good a job in predicting success in life either. Some of the smartest in my class were flops and some D-F students were quite successful. It seems that focus-power is an important trait that many of us are deficient in. Aren’t most Filipinos a mixture of Chinese, Spanish, and Polynesian?……all pretty smart races.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Filipinos are predominantly a Malay people, pure and simple. There are a lot of Chinese, some Spanish, and some negroid aboriginal people. Most of the “mixture” is between upper class Filipino and Spanish. The negroid aboriginal people have been there for about 30,000 years. The Malay people have been there for at least 3,000 years. The rest are more recent.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      PMontpetit, I condemn you of political correctness and hating your own culture, a culture which allows you to openly hate it and allows you to ungratefully have the luxury of a computer and the use of the internet. You are a typical liberal who sees a racist everywhere. I am un-racist enough to marry a Filipino, but you have repressed your racism so much that you are going to twist that around somehow in your twisted liberal mind that I am the racist.

      The original idea around here was that the E-Cat would help everyone, including those in central Africa. Then someone, with lots of experience, pointed out that that won’t work. Other than being a wanker, what makes you the expert on race relations and the internal thoughts of other people?

    • Bob Says:

      PMontpetit, I find your insinuations and call for racism to be incredibly vulgar and without any base. The subject was the affect on the 3rd world. How cultures react to technology is not based on skin color, its based on life style, education and how people choose to life. I stand by my claim that much of the world will not be able to buy, use and take advantage of this great capability. Is that racism, oh small minded one, no, its the fact. If I don’t want to keep taking care of half the world and would rather spend our dwindling dollars on my kids and grand kids, is that racism, no! Why is it some people see a racist behind every tree. Some things in life need to be stated and changed, but because the the Politically correct crowd, like you, most people are afraid to speak out and say the things that need to be said, like end Foreign aid. I think we just may have a race baiter on the blogs!!
      Just for your information, my wife is half of one of these cultures your concerned about. Its people like you that keep things stirred.

  13. Neil Taylor Says:

    Rossi’s hour and half interview done this afternnon can now be seen on YouTube at:

    It is quite enlightening on seveal fronts…

  14. PMontpetit Says:

    Excuse me. Comments such as: “Most of these people are barely smart enough to stay alive” and even your condescending: “it is the temperate cultures duty to support these challenged equatorial cultures” are not exactly devoid of a supercilious value judgement! Racism is not necessarily just a question of colour.

    Let us indeed hope, and plan, for a better future. (for all the species regardless of their altitude, or latitude ;)

  15. brucefast Says:

    I just read an article on science 2.0 that presents the very place where the e-cat may produce its most radical and rapid revolution.

    While India may no longer be what comes to mind when we think of the 3rd world, they need e-cats. The environments within India that are rapidly developing, but are not yet connected to the grid will eat up this technology.

    I think that this sort of hot spot will be found in pockets throughout the 3rd world. I bet it’ll happen first in the cities. I think that a fire of growth and prosperity will be ignited in these hot spots and will quickly spread to the surrounding region.

    • Anony Mole Says:

      I could not find direct evidence of how Husk Power Systems converts combustible fuels to electricity but I found various mentions of steam based turbine generators. This heat->to->electricity conversion seems to be the biggest hurdle to me with regards to efficient use of energy sources such as LENR.

      For instance here is a video that shows a primitive but effective combustion to electricity plant:

      To replace the combustion chambers on a device like this with LENR cores seems ludicrous. I mentioned to Rossi but he replied they were too inefficient. Compared to that video I’d have to question that reply.

      • brucefast Says:

        Antony Mole, “This heat->to->electricity conversion seems to be the biggest hurdle to me with regards to efficient use of energy sources such as LENR.”

        Heat to useable energy certainly is the next main issue. Using the e-cat as a heater is fairly simple. It may be possible to convert the heat just to rotary motion, and use that motion to power vehicles of all sorts. This is the steam-drive model. (Steam-drive has the interesting idiosyncrasy that no transmission is required because steam power has a huge power band.)

        We may find that technologies like what Power Chips is proposing will end up as a fundamental tool in this conversion. However if you read Power Chips’ literature carefully, you will see that it in the earliest experimental stage. Further, these technologies are often presented with much fewer issues than reality presents. (That goes for LENR as well. We are discussing, for instance, the possibility that Rossi’s implementation must be shut down frequently for maintenance.)

        Even if Power Chips’ technology is all that it is claimed to be, the steam power solution is simply a much more mature technology. LENR is going to want to move very fast. Even if the Power Chips technology takes over the world, I believe that steam and/or stirling will arise first.

        That said, I do have my eye on Power Chips.

      • Bob Says:

        Anony Mole, The comment by Rossi was in error. Power Chips claims an efficiency of 60% white most turbines are around 30%. Bruce is right though, its not proven and is very immature and we just don’t know if its what they say. If it is, it will gain favor very fast. The Acoustic systems are very interesting also, but they are in the same position of having to prove themselves.
        The energy revolution will offer huge potentials for new conversion devices, hopefully one of these will work out.

      • brucefast Says:

        Bob, I think you need to be cautious about how you read Power Chip’s efficiencies. They talk of % of Carnot efficiency. Carnot efficiency is already significantly reduced from true efficiency. How inefficient Carnot is depends very much on the temperature differential between the “hot side” and “cold side”. However, its never 1kw in, 1kw out.

        As far as heat engines go, I think that Power Chip does not accurately represent the efficiencies of their competition. My understanding is that steam turbines get to about 90% of Carnot.

        That said, Rossi’s suggestion that Power Chip is “too inefficient” is a crock. In an e-cat world “too inefficient” is almost irrelevant, after all e-cat energy is “nearly free”. However, Power Chip is a technology in its infancy. They have no product. They only have some experimental results. As such it is simply not ready for them to ship to Rossi for use in e-cats.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Bruce, your right we need to be cautious. The way heat is measured as inefficiencies is somewhat confusing. The real bottom line thing to look at is heat in electricity out. I thought Power Chips looked pretty good in that regard. If I understand it right, most turbines get about 35% efficiency in conversion of heat to electricity where power chips is closer to 50-60%. Am I looking at it wrong?

      • brucefast Says:

        Actually, Bob, one of the easiest Carnot calculators I could find is on the Power Chips website:
        If you provide the following values:
        For “cold side” put in 100 (Celsius)
        For “hot side” put in 500 (Celsius)
        (That’s a bit better than what we can expect from an e-cat).
        We see that 100% of Carnot efficiency is 51% efficient (1 watt in = 0.517 watts out.) So Carnot ineficiences already account for 50%. That’s why there is a huge difference between an “efficiency” and a “% of Carnot” rating.

      • Anony Mole Says:

        More thermoelectric exploration and discovery:

    • Anony Mole Says:

      DoD examining this technology for site energy reduction:

      When LENR is on this list then it will no doubt have been vindicated:

  16. Simon Derricutt Says:

    @Brucefast – If you transform the equations for Carnot efficiency, and instead of having an infinite hot heatsink you have one that is small and thus needs to be fed energy to supply to the Carnot engine, you will find that 100% of the energy you feed to the hot sink comes out as mechanical energy. Leave the cold sink as infinite, since that mirrors better what the real world is. Thus as an engineer I’d say that a Carnot engine is 100% efficient since all the heat energy you supply comes out as work. Thermodynamic efficiency can be confusing unless you bear this in mind. An engine working from 293K cold sink (normal atmosphere at 20°C) and 594K (say steam at 321°C) has a maximum Carnot efficiency of 50%, though if you look at the calorific value of the fuel burnt versus the work output you may well find it it better (in terms of fuel burnt versus work out) using a good Stirling engine. Good steam turbines, as far as I know, get to around 70% of Carnot efficiency – each stage can take a maximum of about 30% of the power from the gas thus a 7-stage turbine is a reasonable compromise of efficiency and cost. 70% of Carnot efficiency means that 70% of the fuel’s heat ends up as work and 30% gets thrown away, but the thermodynamic efficiency of that turbine (based on the 321°C and 20°C figures above) would be only 35% as opposed to the 50% efficiency of the Carnot cycle.

    If you go from 7-stage (70% efficient) to 8-stage turbine, you’d get about 80% efficiency, 9-stage about 87% efficiency, 10-stage would be about 91% and so on, but it never gets to 100%.

    I hope this makes sense of a part of Physics that seems to be deliberately obtuse. The often-quoted “thermodynamic efficiency” depends very much on the upper and lower temperatures used, and not on the actual energy in/energy out balance.

    Thus if Power Chip say they get 70% of the Carnot efficiency, in fact they are being helpful and stating that they get 70% of the available energy, which is very good.

    Their technology looks a good idea, but it does seem to be taking a long, long time to get something in the market. It seems to me they are still having a problem making something that conducts electricity but not heat across a nanometre-scale gap. That is a very difficult one to solve.

    • brucefast Says:

      “I hope this makes sense of a part of Physics that seems to be deliberately obtuse.” Actually, I don’t know about the “deliberately” part. I think that Carnot efficiency is inherently obtuse.

      As far as “stages” go, I believe that the Cyclone Power steam engine is a 3 stage. Steam turbines are more commonly 7 stage.

      I agree with you that Power Chips has a long way to go. However, reading their literature, it seems that investment money is their biggest challenge. This problem will evaporate once cold fusion devices hit Home Depot or Wal-Mart. I expect a panic to be first to the market in a lot of industries. This panic is likely to skip over Power Chips’ technology on the first pass. They may prove revolutionary in the second pass of innovation, however.

  17. Anony Mole Says:

    Recent research has determined that malaria kills twice as many people as previously thought.

    Local production of mosquito nets, production of DEET, the deployment of inexpensive heat/electronic mosquito traps all using energy produced from LENR sources would go a long way to help in the eradication of this disease.

    On the other hand, increased irrigation using newly available LENR water pumps and desalination technology would expand the mosquito’s breeding territory.

    Malaria is an amazing disease. It has shaped world history. Maybe Bill and Melinda can help the LENR effort…

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      When the Gaea worshipers banned DDT they killed tens of millions of Africans and Asians, which was their purpose.

      Georgia Guidestones #1 objective:
      “Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.”
      (present population > 6,000,000,000) They want 90% of us dead.

      LENR is bad, bad news for the Gaea religion.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Iggy, I see you read the UN agenda 21 document also. I downloaded it about a year ago and was shocked at what I read. Yes, they truly do want to reduce the population that much. They want to move the people off the land and make them live in high density housing along rail lines for commuting. I would have never believed it if I hadn’t read it myself. The whole plan is being pushed through EICLE, which is big in most big cities.

      • brucefast Says:

        This is scary!
        I checked further and found this:

        Oh man, now like Miff I’m using wikipedia as a source.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        OK, here is the analogy deal with population. Population pressure is just like gas pressure, except that hotter is worse and the speed of molecules is like the level of peacefulness and responsibility of the citizens of Earth. If people in a closed system are very peaceful, inwardly and outwardly, and more responsible, then the pressure on each other and on the environment goes down. We can easily endure 7 billion people on Earth if we all make an effort to be more inwardly peaceful and outwardly responsible. If, however, we are like a bunch of Vikings towards each other and like a bunch of capitalists toward the environment, then 1 billion is still too many.

        Real happiness does not involve running around like a bunch of speeding molecules and giving each other a hard time. True happiness comes from inward peace and caring about each other. And true happiness will cause others happiness and protect the environment.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Thanks, Iggy, I’d never heard of this. Scary.

        Looking at the way the world is used, we have problems with the number we have, but as Roger says we could stand quite a lot more if we we more careful and responsible. Cheap (in all ways) space-flight is going to be important in the next decades, so that we can spread humanity to a second Earth. There are a load of asteroids out there we could use to make spacecraft with, providing we have cheap enough energy and a reasonable space-drive. A lot of them are solid Nickel-Iron alloys.

      • brucefast Says:

        LENR will allow us to create fresh water from salt, dirty or polluted water.
        LENR will allow us to create controlled greenhouses anywhere.
        Heck, LENR will allow us to grow production crops of bananas in the sub-arctic if we want to.

        So, LENR will increase the world’s population capacity. I find it baffling, however, that an organization would espouse a reduction of the human population by 90% on the one hand, but “Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts” on the other. What just court could do what is necessary to pull off the decrease in population?

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Not only that, but a skyscraper could have greenhouse levels and grow all the food it needed. Population could be many times the current level without famine and without upsetting the rest of the biosphere. Reduction in burning oil means less oxygen used per person (generated by the biosphere) so there will be enough for a lot more people. As we push this limit, we may have to generate our own oxygen. With very cheap energy most things become easier to do.

        I haven’t seen clues as to how this 90% reduction is to be achieved, except by letting Malaria and Aids do the work.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        As people get more educated, they have fewer children. It is likely that the world’s population might level out at 9 billion, and people might even decide to bring the numbers down just by not having so many children.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Recently I was watching a report on the disaster in Somalia. A woman had lost 4 of her 7 children whilst trekking to find food. Very sad for her, but also points out the problem – in such famine-prone places people have a lot of children in order to ensure that enough survive. Children are their pension fund equivalent. Since the country cannot in its present state support an increase of x7 in the population, it follows that a lot must die or move to somewhere better. A believable Social Security system and education should over time lead to fewer children being born in such hard lands.

        Following Darwin, it is probably true that such excesses (to us) of children are the only way the race has survived up till now. Those peoples who only produced enough children for replacement have died out in one of the periodic famines. So the equation “lots of children = survival” is probably deeply ingrained in the society there. It may take a while to change.

        With cheap LENR energy, I would expect that such countries would be able to support far more people. I would hope that the number will stabilise, as Roger says, to not too much more than current world population.

        With most necessities of life being produced in automated factories, the social system will be forced to change. Most people will not have a productive job, and therefore a change in taxation and benefits must happen. Since this change will probably happen much faster than the normal generational changes, we can probably expect much social unrest and suffering during the change.

        Interesting times….

      • Roger Bird Says:

        The UN discovered that education is the key. The state of Kerala in India dropped their birth rate drastically with the use of education. Kerala is on the south west coast of the Indian peninsula, and was one of the poorest areas in India.

      • Alain Says:

        you are right, this is the consensus today for demographs.

        population wont get above 9billions.
        education quicken demographic transition (the reduction of fecondity with developement)

        yes the fact that kids change from pension fund meat to beloved expensive educated project, do reduce fecondity.

        all prediction of demographic transition have been anticipated in reality, because, unexpectedly , family seems to care more on kids quality than numbers, even before they get middle class…

        yes educated women invest less in fecondity and more in personal life, work, and education of their kids.

        if you want to reduce the population bellow 1billion, just give them the lifestyle of german, with good female education, and bad child care infrastructure before kindergarten.

        women will choose between work and kids, thus at fecondity below 1.7, in 12 generation (25-30years in europe) , job is done. divided by 7…
        france is different since child care is more easy before school, and work regulation more protective for mothers. we are stable.

  18. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      If every second or third floor were farming area with correct lighting, then such a building would be self-sufficient without taking up much land. I suppose that meat would become a luxury item, though, since you can feed around 10 vegetarians for 1 meat-eater.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      That’s amazing! There is an Italian inventor that has taken 3D printing to the next level. He has developed a rock/cement type material and a robotic system that essentially prints a house out. He has done a few houses and is still perfecting, but he claims that a house can be built in 1/3 the time with 1/3 the labor. This could work wonders for reducing home costs! I know, there goes the home prices again if this catches on.
      NASA is looking at Robotic 3D printing for a trip to mars or colony on the moon. In place of transporting living quarters, they use light composite materials that they haul in bulk and print as required. Various universities are researching this.
      Wish I would have saved the links.

  19. Bob Norman Says:

    The UN Agenda 21 has a goal of 1 Billion People. They want to move the people into strips of high density housing along rail ways so cars are eliminated. The government is trying very hard to regulate cows out of existence. All kind of barriers being put up. They tried to regulate dust, which would have killed hay and cattle ranching, but congress shot that down. Living on a Farm, I see the government over reach. I just got a 15 page questionair that had to be filled out asking everything about your land. They are slowly taking over all water. Control the water, you control everything. Just watch the legislation and regulation, its very obvious what they are doing.

    I agree that education is the key to population reduction. In Somalia, it goes much deeper than that. I have a friend that spent 5 years there trying to help. He said the biggest problem is they have kids while the mother has no nutrients in their body and when they are little the lack of food prevents their brains from growing properly. They have a whole country of brain deprived people, so its very hard to teach them and they just seem to resort to the old simple ways of living. I mentioned this on another thread a while back and was called a racist, its not racist to say someone is stupid if they don’t have the proper nutrition while growing. Yes, they need education, but they need to stop having nutrient starved kids. Its a catch 22 situation.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      I’ll go find a copy of the Agenda 21 – it sounds worrying that a world organisation has such aims. Control of water (hydraulic despotism) has always been an aim of governments, though why they would want all that control over peoples’ lives I don’t understand. I wouldn’t want the job.

      Malnutrition in childhood causes many other health problems apart from reduced brain functions. In India I heard they are now giving pregnant women vitamin supplements to try to mitigate this, figuring that the increased productivity they get from the children when they grow up is worth the money spent now.

      It looks to me that the third-world problem is going to take generations to fix even after LENR becomes a reality. We’ll also have to design fool-proof systems that the local “simple ways” can use to increase the standard of living and food production. There will initially be whole populations that were born too soon to effectively help.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Yes, it will take generations to fix as the damage is done to many. My hope is that LENR changes the food equation to such an extent that malnutrition and underdevelopment. I would much rather provide technology to areas that will allow them to become self sufficient and health. Just sending food solves nothing. Its the humanitarian thing to do, but you will have to keep doing it over and over. Not a good way to continue. With LENR many things can be rethought and hopefully improved or fixed.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        That’s a long long document to read, and the language is vague enough to drive a bus through. It may be a while before I digest that and understand what they really intend.

        Sending food is purely a stop-gap, and the underlying problem remains. Some NGOs such as Oxfam do try to fix the systemic problem, but it is so big that they can only improve small areas.

        In some ways it’s a bit like the Green issue. You can’t legislate to make people conserve resources. The only way to make it happen is to make it cheaper to do the ‘green option’ than the traditional way. Cheap energy can do this if the indigenous people find it saves them work and feeds them better.

  20. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    One poor freezing slob in central Greenland dreaming about cheap heat.

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