New Years Predictions for Cold Fusio

by Bob Norman

These are mine.

1) Customers will verify that Rossi’s E-Cat truly works

2) defkalion will show a working system and enter the market.
3) The understanding of the reaction methodology will expand with multiple ways to make significant CF reactions
4) There will be multiple fuel and catalyst recipes
5) While producible results will increase, the push-back from government will stiffen and the year will in in a huge regulatory quagmire.

6) No, the world won’t end!

What do the rest of you Sages see?

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153 Responses to “New Years Predictions for Cold Fusio”

  1. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Craig Binns will divorce Mary Yugo and join a monastery.

  2. Roger Bird Says:

    More and more people will say that they have over unity LENR. There will be an explosion of these reports.

    More people or companies will say that they are preparing to sell working units to the public or to businesses.

    Some small number of firms will start selling units.

    The government will notice but will not do anything until 2013. It will be too late. In an ideal world, the government will stay the phuck out of it.

    Academia will begin to wake up. Hot fusion people will dig in their heels.

    Shell will jump into it more, perhaps by 2013. Since the energy sector as a whole will shrink, even if you include LENR, Shell will diversify. Other energy companies will follow suit, but they may be too late.

  3. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    A new version of the old song “When You’re Hot, You’re Hot”….. “When You’re Not, You’re Cool”.

  4. Greg Goble Says:

    MIT will make a statement that the study of phenomenon found in expeiments explained as cold fusion – or – low energy nuclear – or – dense matter reactions – is an Interdisciplinary Science yielding a new body of knowledge.

    Wikipedia will move references to it being a pathological science to the historical footnotes.

  5. Jonathan Says:

    Henri Becquerel discovered that Uranium was radioactive in 1896, but to took until 1954 to generate the first electricity from nuclear power. Given how new this technology is, and that we don’t fully understand it yet, I think the timescales are a bit optimistic.

  6. Tom Andersen Says:

    If it works as advertised, the initial units will not be much cheaper than nat gas for heating water. Especially when you add in the certainty of quick obsolescence. A $1000 annual nat gas bill won’t be much of an incentive to buy a nuclear system and park it in your basement. Same goes for a building that is 100x bigger. You have much more risk.

    The early adopters will be remote communities and individuals who are off the grid. For these people, the alternative is the current diesel / heating oil system which is expensive.

    But over a few years these early adopters – will start to lower the price as volumes rise, and show the safety and efficiency of this system.

    The next phase is the end of coal. Then nat gas, then oil for transportation. It should only take 10 years.

  7. Bernie Koppenhofer Says:

    Everyone seems to be forgetting LENR effect on desalination and what that means to a world thirsty for water. I predict next year the world will wake up to the advantages of using LENR for desalination.

  8. Brad Arnold Says:

    Given the revolutionary nature of LENR on the sociological, geo-political, and economic, I think that there will be an explosion of news reports when working LENR generators start flooding out of Leonardo Corporation and Defkalion factories.

    Next year international corporations will start pouring money into LENR R&D.

    The financial markets will start reacting to the change in economic paradigm that LENR represents. The US economy’s GDP will increase by at least 1% as the result of heightened expectations surrounding the emergence of the new technology.

    Finally (and this is the biggie), private enterprise will start planning and building the infrastructure for our explosion into space. This last prediction is because of the TREMENDOUS profit potential of exploiting the vast natural resources outside of our atmosphere. It is almost unimaginable the amount of profit that could be harvested in space given the vistas opening up due to LENR.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      Brad, Shell Oil has already announced they will be doing research on this. Not sure if that’s good or bad though. Do we want the oil guys getting the keys?

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bob, there are no keys. Many people will figure it out. Uruguay will start making E-Cats and to hell with the patents.

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        Ni+H (heated under pressure)=Cu+lots of heat. I personally don’t even care of North Korea or (name that @sshole) get it, just that the technology gets distributed far and wide. BTW, you ought to see the alternative energy projects that Exxon/Mobil is funding – my only fear is that if it threatens to replace their main source of profit (duh, oil), then it would somehow get suppressed.

        That gets to another of my New Year predictions: that LENR will start to change geo-political paradigms. Since access to fossil fuel reserves occupys such a large part of international relations, LENR ought to really shake things up next year. It would be really nice if it sidetracked the preemptive attack some want the US to launch against Iran (although not preventatively attacking Iran isn’t much of a prediction).

      • Roger Bird Says:

        A preventative strike against Iran has nothing directly to do with oil. Not everything is economic determinism. Iranian Muslim militants (i.e. their government) hate our guts irrespective of oil.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Brad, you captured my interest on the technology that Exon Mobile is working on. Any links or words you can share.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I know Exxon is developing bio-fuel technology.

  9. Danny Maris Says:

    I actually agree with all those predictions! Well done!!

    I also agree with Tom, that it won’t be a cheap technology initially, although costs will be falling rapidly.

    Another darker prediction: someone will get killed by this new technology in some way. It’s unusual for a new technology not to kill someone: I am thinking of the Member of the UK Parliament killed by one of the first locomotive engines; the Japanese worker killed by a robot arm; Madame Curie killed by radioactivity…

    Final prediction: a major charity will express interest in trialling the technology in a poor part of the world with few energy resources.

  10. Roger Bird Says:

    Dear you-all, can any of you give me the name or the link or an idea of the video that has the extremely dramatic music about the advent of cold fusion. I forgot to save the link and after Celani’s support of Rossi and cold fusion, I am ready to listen to that video.

  11. Roger Bird Says:

    This is not a prediction; it is a concern. Consider that Rossi is working 18 hour days. Now, when one is doing one’s passion, then 18 hour days is not quite as bad as, like 18 hour days of two funky, non-fun jobs, or 18 hour days of truck driving. But still, Rossi is the only person who really knows the secret.

    Please, people, let’s figure this out together. Let’s start projects to gain more knowledge.

  12. Gergoryyc Says:

    Clairvoyant here I come. I’ve been follwoing this CF/LENR news since inception, kinda. First off . It is good thing there are many out of closet claims since Rossi. Some may be real , some may be a puppet to destract main public so they can get to the real fellows and some bad things can happen…. Anyho. If and IF arch enemies , and there are sooooooooo many and VERYVERY capable , you all know who they are …
    If I am able to buy one working unit. All hell will break loose. There will be lawsuits flying from one end of globe to moon trying to get rid of it…I mean all kinds of bribes or threats or setups or MIB or multitudes of cladestine activities totally unmentionables that will James Bond and Gold Finger to shame. And we will all have to return it of dump it or else you and I will be charged for ilegal activities…And retunr to our filthy sells in shackles and chains once agaain.. ……… For humanities sake ..God forbid …… Amen.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      That’s why atop my eCat will be a hamster-treadmill…..certain to throw off the inspector, plus a little baksheesh.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      I believe the biggest barrier to getting LENR into the market will be government and the lobbyists that feed the beast. the DOE refuses to look at the Technology and the patent office won’t allow any such patents. With these barriers, how will a product get into the market. What regulatory agency can allow a product in the market, what inventor will hand product over to a market that can reverse engineer it without and limits on competing.
      I think the US will be in Technical Grid lock, while other countries will embrace its use and will get a 2 or 3 year jump in the market. Once again we will not be able to compete in our own markets, the great business explosion will end up being a negative. The Fossil Fuel jobs and markets will ramp down and imports will flood our country. Once again we lose jobs and markets. We need revolutionary thinking in our government to enable LENR be the technology gift it can be.

  13. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    NextBigFuture’s prediction through 2021:
    “There are many kinds of hot and cold nuclear fusion technologies that I am tracking closely. The “cold fusion” is likely some other kind of energy mechanism. I believe that several will get commercialized in this decade. However, the real impact even if things go well will be in the next decade as society adapts and the technologies are perfected and fully deployed. Just providing clean energy that does not have resource limitations is great for the environment and takes away some worries but only will have huge impact with massive reduction in energy prices and enabling massive new capabilities like space travel throughout the solar system and making industrialization of space easy.”

  14. Bernie Koppenhofer Says:

    I predict because of the internet and instant communication the “powers to be” will not be able to bury this game changing energy source. If you want to help this prediction come true:

    I sent the following email to my Federal government Representatives please add or delete your own thoughts on the subject, but please write your Representatives.

    “Dear Representative:

    Subject: LENR Fast Track

    There is a preposterous situation occurring within our government that I hope your leadership can correct. Our Patent office refuses to grant patents for LENR reactors because it is their position LENR is impossible. LENR has been demonstrated in hundreds of experiments by many scientists around the world. In fact, Mr. Andrea Rossi has demonstrated his reactor many times and it has now been demonstrated the reaction can be reproduced from his patent application. This bureaucratic or purposeful obstruction is stalling a revolutionary energy source the world desperately needs. Your leadership is required now to remedy the above situation and to put LENR patents on a fast track. Thank you.”

  15. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    My Congressman is a lame duck but I’ve written 2 governors and 2 important financial writers.

    The only one that had heard about the eCat was one of the financial writers that had heard about it on Coast-to-Coast radio.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I don’t want any government jack-wagons to know about LENR. If they contribute tax-payer money, then they can also control it and shut it down. Please, stop telling your government representatives. We can do this on our own. The more that we get done before government steps in, the better off the progress of LENR will be.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        So you’re saying let the govt get its instruction from the lobbyists and don’t reveal the wishes of the citizenry? The patent office will appreciate the lack of heat from the public.

        I never suggested that my representatives subsidize LENR but only to give moral support and encouragement. As far as I know, Rossi hasn’t asked for any govt subsidies.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        The longer it takes the government and the lobbyists to figure out what is happening, the better. But I admit that it is better to get to the government before the lobbyists do.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        This is the kind of genius that OldEnergy will employ if they choose to demonize LENR. Edward Bernays, The Father of Spin.

        “If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits.” – Edward Bernays

    • Bernie Koppenhofer Says:

      Hi Iggy: I agree, no one I have contacted has heard of LENR, we have to get the word out, the mass media for some reason is not doing their job. (I smell oil and gas)

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “There is no such thing, at this date of the world’s history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it.

        There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone.

        The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press?

        We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes.”
        John Swinton, NY newspaper writer speaking at his retirement banquet in 1880.

        I doubt much has changed.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        This does not mean that all manner of things do not get published.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.”
        – Edward Bernays, November 22, 1891 – March 9, 1995 (nephew of Sigmund Freud)

      • Roger Bird Says:

        But this suggesting of ideas happens so well and over such huge distances. The marketplace of ideas is incredibly awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! We are the better for it.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” – Woodrow Wilson

  16. Bob Says:

    The Internet has gone a long way in breaking the stranglehold that government and main stream media hos on the public, but they are trying very hard to get control of that also. Until they do, we have a chance of getting the word out and overcoming their efforts to halt the progress.

  17. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Rossi optimistic:

    Andrea Rossi
    December 26th, 2011 at 11:39 AM

    Dear Francesco Fiorenzani: I hope within 2012. We must have a production of 1 million pieces immediately, to put the price at a level to reach these strategic targets:
    1- allow everybody to buy it
    2- kill the competition
    Warm Regards,

  18. Bob Says:

    A nice start for the new year. Here is news on the DOE shifting stance on LENR (cold Fusion)

  19. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    “The Year In Energy” by MIT Technology Review
    (no mention of 800 pound gorilla that entered the room).

  20. Roger Bird Says:

    So, I asked National Instruments if they were working with Andrea Rossi: This is the response that I got:

    Dear Roger,

    That name does not pull up in our directory.


    Zandra Dolan

    Who, besides Andrea Rossi, said that Andrea Rossi or Leonardo Corp. was working with National Instruments?

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Did you ask if Leonardo Corporation or Ampenergo were customers?

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I just sent exactly this email, and I will post the response. Zandra Dolan asked for a clarification and she has responded twice today, so I expect a response today:


        Dear Zandra,

        Thank you so much for your help and your reply.

        Andrea Rossi is an inventor who claims to have a sustainable and perhaps controllable device for “cold fusion” or the more respectable term LENR (low energy nuclear reaction). We in the LENR enthusiast crowd are 100% certain that LENR using palladium and deuterium and LENR using nickel and hydrogen are real but are not yet easily controlled or reproducible. It is uncertain why the reactions are not consistently reproducible.

        We are also uncertain about Rossi’s claim that he has a sustainable and perhaps controllable device using Ni-H. Rossi has claimed that he is working with National Instruments, presumable to control the reaction or to allow customers to be able to easy control the reaction with National Instrument’s most excellent products.

        Rossi is very closed fisted about his invention, with good reason considering how Fleishmann and Pons were treated. He has said that the reaction is Ni-H. He has said that he has a secret catalyst. He has mentioned other things. There have been many public demonstrations and tests, but always controlled by Rossi or with Rossi hovering nearby. Many scientists have viewed the tests and have come away very impressed but still not 100% certain. There are nuclear physicists in Italy who support Rossi 100%, including Levi, Stremmenos, Celani, Focardi and perhaps a few others. There are two nuclear physicists from Sweden who are very impressed by Rossi’s invention, one of whom was the former president of the Swedish Skeptical Society.

        I forgot to mention another company that is the US partner with Andrea Rossi: Ampenergo

        We think that National Instruments is a rock solid company with an excellent reputation. If National Instruments was working with Andrea Rossi in some sense, that would convince many people that Rossi’s invention was not a scam.


        Roger Bird
        Colorado Springs


        I will get back to you-all as soon as I get to the response from Zandra Dolan of National Instruments.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      “I phoned NI headquarter and they put me in touch with the NI person in Italy who Andrea Rossi named to me in a Skype conference call today; and that person confirmed the customer relationship. I talked to two additional people as well.

      Stefano Concezzi, who serves as NI’s Director of Science and Big Physics Segment, told me that NI does not comment on contracts made with customers, unless the customer requests a press release; but he could confirm that Andrea Rossi is a customer.

      “I would love for him to be right.

      “We support every kind of research for the betterment of human kind. Whoever is interested in doing that, we would be happy to support.”

      So at this time, I would gather that their contract should not be construed as a validation or confirmation of the E-Cat science, but a signal of NI’s willingness to help Rossi develop the technology into an even more robust embodiment, to help increase its operational stability, reliability, safety; while lowering its price point.


      On November 10, 2011 4:39 PM [MST], regarding the above story, I received the following from Trisha McDonell | Corporate PR Manager | National Instruments.

      Subject: Re: final Re: contact info for E-Cat / NI contract

      Thank you Sterling for allowing us to review. We approve the text, especially the National Instruments portion of the story that includes Stefano’s quote and information.

      Best regards
      Trisha ”

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I am sorry, Iggy, but what did all that mean? I got lost in the quotes and unquotes. One sentence would be nice. (:->)


      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “I am sorry, Iggy, but what did all that mean? I got lost in the quotes and unquotes. One sentence would be nice. (:->)

        The entire post is verbatim from peswiki.

        “I would love for him to be right. We support every kind of research for the betterment of human kind. Whoever is interested in doing that, we would be happy to support.” – Stefano Concezzi, Director of Science and Big Physics Segment, NI.
        All other references to 1st person refer to Stirling Allan.

        I don’t know how to condense all that into 1 sentence, but nevertheless, it’s confirmed in NI’s own Nov 24 press release, where their refer to Leonardo’s ‘intentions’.


      • Roger Bird Says:

        Thank you, Iggy.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      “For more than 35 years, National Instruments has provided innovators with the tools they need to address the world’s biggest engineering challenges,” said Stefano Concezzi, director of the science and big physics segment at National Instruments. “We are excited about the many ways we are helping customers streamline the development of advanced physics and energy projects.”

      “Innovators throughout the world are using the NI graphical system design approach to efficiently address the world’s grand engineering challenges in medical technology, urban infrastructure, alternative energy and other critical applications. In physics specifically, NI has contributed product solutions to some of the most advanced projects including the CERN Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and tokamak fusion device control systems. Additionally, the Leonardo Corporation has intentions to incorporate NI tools in its control system.”

  21. Bob Says:

    Rossi is talking a million units in 2012 with his new partners and talking of 100 Euro prices pe KW. These are both exciting to contemplate, but this simple country boy will be happy with 1000 at anything under $500.
    I have to admit, I daydream of things to be a lot more than normal. Haven’t done this much dreaming since High School.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I confess that I am tiring of the talk. It has been my experience that talk is extremely inexpensive. Yes, Pd-D works. Yes, Ni-H works. But the big issue with Rossi is whether he can control it. I don’t want to have to set my thermostat to control a baffle that would vent the heat outside on summer days rather than to control the reaction itself because the reaction has only two settings, ON or OFF. Can Rossi control his reaction? Is it going to run away and melt the nickel. Discerning minds want to know.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Know what you mean… watching grass grow, but it’s probably developing faster than other products and technologies.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Iggy, I think that you are right. I think that it is our enthusiasm and desires that make it feel like it is taking for freaking ever.

      • Anony Mole Says:

        There does seem to be a missing aspect as to the control of the device. And yes, it appears that a unit would have to be left running, or at least boot up and spin down time would have to be greatly reduced to turn it into a flip the switch to heat your home type heat source.

        I wonder if this energy source might not now usher in the synthetic fuel economy. When not producing heat for winter or electricity for cooling, battery charging and general consumption, then the units could be either electrolyzing water into H2, spinning up dynamos buried in your basement, pumping water up a grade to a gravity fed tank, or simply creating a reverse heat pump and storing the excess heat in rocks in the earth.

        If you had a free energy source that you could not turn off what would you do with the extra energy?

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Bob says: “Rossi is talking a million units in 2012 with his new partners:
      I wonder who Rossi is speaking of when he refers to ‘new partners’? Is he speaking of Ampernergo, the Swedish Physicists, National Instruments, or some new secret partner?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        December 29th, 2011 at 2:50 PM

        Dear Iggy Dalrymple:
        In due time we will give the names of our Partners: it will be when our E-Cats will start to be in distribution. To give the names would mean to receive a lot of meaningless disturb to our work, which in this moment is very hard.
        Warm Regards,

      • Bob Says:

        Iggy, just my guesses, but I don’t think its Ampernergo as that seems like a contract (deal) company that is very hard to connect with. I have tried several times and it appears to be a black hole, no response what so ever. They seem to only be mentioned in regard to big deals and even that is marginal. Their web site is no information ans seems to be a one way mail device.
        NI is more of a science control company, not the type to gear up and ship volume production. I’m thinking its some new partner.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        If Rossi has been in contact with Cyclone Power Technologies I believe Cyclone would have put Rossi in touch with Topline Automotive Technologies.

        “TopLine Automotive Engineering: TopLine Automotive, a 30+ year-old company, is currently one of the largest manufacturers of automotive after-market parts in the United States, supplying over 50% of the market. Headquartered in Chicago, IL, TopLine Automotive has operations throughout the world. Topline Energy’s primary home is a new, state-of-the-art 300,000 sq. ft. facility in Brooksville, FL. This Florida plant, only a few hours from Cyclone, is dedicated to the development and production of distributed and alternative energy products like the Cyclone engine. Cyclone and Topline are working together to commercialize and manufacture
        Cyclone engines.”

        If Topline can build engine blocks, cylinder heads, and pistons, I believe they could easily manufacture eCats.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Andrea Rossi
        January 10th, 2012 at 4:05 PM

        Dear Keith W:
        ………the first deliveries will start perhaps within the year, but I cannot promise it; I can say that the price will be lower than expected and that it will be a revolution. We are making a tremendous work with top level Partners.
        Warm Regards,
        January 10th, 2012 at 2:38 PM

        Dear Ing. Rossi,
        I think you have now seen on many sites people referring to the Cyclone Engine ( as the perfect fit for your e-cat.

        What do you think about it? Did you evaluate it already as a possible solution to genereate electricity and also for use in cars and vehicle of any size?

        Everybody cross his fingers eager of news from you!!
        2012:W e-cat!!
        Andrea Rossi
        January 10th, 2012 at 3:56 PM

        Dear Mariora,
        We asked a precise proposal and a precise efficiency detail, but we got neither.
        Probably is still at prototypal stage; if not, we will be delighted to study.
        Warm Regards,

  22. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Topline Energy
    “Our Mission

    To be the global leader in “Waste-to-Energy” technology, providing systems and manufacturing solutions of the highest quality and value for clean, renewable energy including fuels and products from carbonaceous waste.

    The Beginning

    It was in Long Beach California in the spring of 2006, at the National Hydrogen Association’s annual meeting that John first saw Albin presenting a paper on the extraction of hydrogen from Ethanol. This was, after all, the Hydrogen Association’s meeting. A plethora of hydrogen feedstock methodologies were being presented by a number of professors, entrepreneurs, government scientists and students. All of the processes being presented seemed to be, at least to John’s engineer-level mind, highly sophisticated, leading-edge, expensive and complicated.

    Then there was Dr. Albin Czernichowski who grabbed the attention of many by saying “and you can obtain most of this from your Home Depot store”. Many of the learned attendees seem to be aghast that such a suggestion would even have been offered.”

    “We now stand at the threshold of the next technology revolution, the 6th Age, the Age of Cleantech and Renewable Energy. Although in its infancy, Renewable Energy has captured worldwide attention. The reason is simple; mankind’s existence on Earth depends on it. Continuing to use non-renewable sources of energy for electricity and transportation must end. Whether it ends because our environment rebels from pollution or because the non-renewable sources for energy simply run out, either way it must end and new and innovative ways to effectively harness our abundant renewable resources must be developed.

    Some fifty years ago, in a small lab in Poland, a gifted and brilliant scientist began work in a relatively new area of Physics; Plasma. Plasma is the forth state of matter (following solids, liquids and gases) where there exists a nearly equal amount of positive and negative ions and a certain portion of electrons are free rather than bound to an atom or molecule. Our Sun and lightening are forms of Plasma.

    Albin Czernichowski followed work pioneered by William Crooks, J. Thomson and Irving Langmuir, seeking ways Plasma affected our Earth, the universe and investigated ways it could be harnessed to unlock Hydrogen and other energy-bearing elements from their molecular bonds. Over the past twenty years, Dr. Czernichowski endeavored in finding ways of utilizing small amounts of electricity to form controlled Plasma environments; his work yielding over 31 Patents culminating in the discovery of Gliding-Arc Plasma Technology, now known as GlidArc®.”

  23. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Obama could pull an ‘October Surprise’ by announcing that he has been secretly providing financial support to Rossi’s E-Cat and that as a result he has saved the world by freeing us from dirty expensive energy.

    As much as I dislike Obama, this revelation would likely ensure his re-election but with an opposition senate and house, which would greatly throttle his spending.

  24. Craig Binns Says:


    “Obama could pull an ‘October Surprise’ by announcing that he has been secretly providing financial support to Rossi’s E-Cat and that as a result he has saved the world by freeing us from dirty expensive energy.”

    How about we get to see some of the alleged clean cheap energy before Obama springs his surprise? Revealing that he’s been giving money to a convicted scammer, but not a single erg of energy has come back in return, is not going to impress the US taxpayer, is it?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      What is the world coming to!!!!!!!!!!!! I find myself agreeing with Craig Binns.

      Actually, it might be great if ObaMao pulled an October surprise of telling the public that he was supporting Rossi. He would not get re-elected because it would take months for the public to realize that what he did was a smart move. And Rossi would be greatly benefited. And we would get a president who does not think that money grows on trees.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      By October we may see proof of an affordable and effective product. I’m saying that if that happens, don’t be surprised if Obama claims credit for facilitating it. If the eCat fizzles, you won’t hear from the Anointed One on this subject.

      Don’t forget that the ‘Messiah’ controls our gullible press. He was given the Nobel Peace Prize just for promising hope and change. AlGore claimed credit for inventing the internet and Obama wouldn’t hesitate to jump on the eCat bandwagon.

      Sweden is a hot spot for eCatalism. Sweden is very influential in the Nobel Prize selections. Obama & Rossi could be co-winners of the Nobel Prize for Physics.

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        Sounds like a whole lot of Obama envy. The political establishment in general is in denial over LENR. This is reminiscent of past cusps where I tried as hard as I could to alert our leaders of something, but because it was abstract it was ignored. I found a great line of reasoning for this when a Israeli leader was explaining why they hadn’t put into place any special plans for the second Gulf War (i.e. the preventative invasion of Iraq):

        There is an endless list of possible senarios – we will deal with situations as they arise.

        In other words, LENR is simply an abstraction to our leaders, and therefore isn’t real. When it really arrives, there will be plenty of time to deal with it then.

        In my opinion that is a BIG MISTAKE, and there are critical advantages to seeing LENR coming down the line, and making policy decisions now that will facilitate the smooth integration.

  25. Bob Norman Says:

    I’m betting Obama will have his EPA thugs declare Nickel a dangerous substance and put under government control. Coinage, that’s not a problem as its government minted. The politicians never are ahead of an issue, they only react when its too late.

  26. Anony Mole Says:

    2012 will be the end of the world “as we know it.”

    If you actually study the apocalypse threads you’ll discover that all the predictions simply state that the world will change. That life as we know it, will be altered. If you look back to what the discovery and application of crude oil did, it too marked the end of the world “as it was then known.”

    Free (or nearly free) energy will be the end of the world “as we know it.” 2012 will truly be apocalyptic.

    Crude oil represents the utter core of the world economy. MIT’s subterfuge agenda did not get that wrong what-so-ever. Even though the transition to NFE (nearly free energy) from fossil fuels will take tens of years, the world economy will initially collapse when the true understanding of the implications of NFE sink in.

    Let’s continue the projection for a moment. Oil is priced as a futures commodity. It is the future price of oil that we trade on the NYMEX. The current price of ~$100 for a barrel of crude oil supposes that the future demand of oil remain steady and growing. If we take away that demand – whoosh, flop! The price of crude will drop to a third or less of its current perceived value. Current demand will remain as high as it is now. But once it is known that future demand will drop 90% (est.) from what it is today – the price can’t possibly hold.

    What happens then? Well, the currencies of all of the OPEC nations plummet. Riots in the OPEC nations, mostly Islamic, breakout. The connections from crude oil to everything economic are so complete that there will be nary an industry not affected.

    For all intents and purposes, it will be the end of the world “as we know it.”

    • Jonathan Says:

      Some of the oil demand, about 2% is for plastics and chemicals. That won’t change. A much more substantial proportion is for road transport fuel, and that will be the last thing to change, because of the technical challenges of making a steam engine with a decent range, and if oil prices drop, there will be less incentive to do this.

      The other thing is that the standard oil contract that is quoted on the commodity exchanges is a 3 month future, and even if a fully working ecat started shipping today, I don’t think demand for oil would have changed much by the end of March. We have substantial reserves of tar sands which should bring the price of oil down to $50 per barrel when they are fully on stream, but the price of oil is still over $100 because of expected demand before that happens.

      I actually think coal will be the first thing to drop in price. It will still be needed for steel production and for chemicals, but not so much for electricity generation. Even so, it does take a while to build a new power station, even with existing proven technology, and existing coal power stations will still run because they are expensive and the building cost has already been paid for.

      The other thing is that while the science bit may have been done in terms of making the discovery, we still need to do the engineering bit to turn it into a useful reliable product, and that will take time. I would say another 10-15 years minimum judging by how long it took for earlier inventions to move to mainstream use.

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        “Total replacement of fossil fuels for everything but synthetic organic chemistry.” –Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny, NASA

        I think your expectations of lower fossil fuel prices is overly cautious – oil futures are driven by speculators, and nothing would spook speculators like a silver bullet replacement that will be adopted quickly (i.e. due to the price savings). Besides, there is the estimated value of fossil fuel infrastructure along with the estimated value of the unharvested fossil fuel still in the ground that energy companies carry on their books as an asset.

        No, proven commercialization of LENR, regardless of market penetration, ought to cause the value of those assets to plummet. I bet the current denial will end quickly, shocking the market as it adjusts it’s valuation of fossil fuel commodities and assets, instead of always being seen as tomorrow’s worry (like hot fusion for instance).

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        BTW, it take a price of over 80$/barrel to make oil-sands profitable. Oil-sand investors are going to be one of the first to lose their shirt, because as the price of oil plummets, billions of dollars in oil-sand assets is going to take a dive, bankrupting companies and people who have unbalanced investment portfolios.

        I keep trying to warn them, but my message is falling on deaf ears – there is too much money now in the Canadian Oil-sands bubble. This will mean great hardship for a large number of people, especially if they adopt the expectations of Jonathan and think they have plenty of time to sell their oil-sands investment before it goes bust.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Good analysis. I predict nat gas prices to be 1st impacted. That will devastate the industry because present prices,<$3.00, are already below cost of production.

      • Anony Mole Says:

        Nat gas though is a ground-to-use type of commodity. Only recently has LNG been available for storage. Nat. gas’s future value is less a concern than its current delivery price. It’s more like a grain where limited storage and near term use price is more the norm.

        Oil’s price, on the other hand, as +Brad Arnold mentions, contains peak oil, limited reserves, future exploration and delivery prices embedded within it.

        Yes, coal will be deeply impacted too. Metallurgical coal will continue to be mined profitably, but fuel coal will take a big hit. Again it’s not the current price, or even the price out 12 months, it’s the potential price of the coal in the ground that will be most affected.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        The first big hits will occur in wind and solar energy. These expensive energies will no longer make sense and will quickly die off.
        The government is shutting down 10% of our coal power plants without a source to take their place. Short term prices will rocket and there will be brown/black out. I’m hoping the power companies can convert these plants and keep them open.

        I believe cars will convert faster than expected. People used to trade cars in every 2 years, but with the economy downturn, that number is closer to 5 years and climbing. This long term cost savings could re-energize the auto business. What will be interesting is how auto design and the EPA will react. I’m seeing big stylish cars back on the road. Bring back the 57 Cadillac!

        Short the Boom in North Dakota, it will be over in a few years if Rossi starts delivering. Everything will be gated by politics, as the government realizes they lose control of people and will lose a tone in taxes. How do they react?

      • Roger Bird Says:

        In my opinion, the cars will be cheaper, which I am sorely looking forward to. I replaced my engine (because I was too much of an airhead to change the oil regularly), and it cost about $5,500, roughly. An E-Cat plus Cyclone engine will cost less, have fewer moving parts, not need a transmission, will be quieter, and be easier to repair, and of course the fuel will cost less than the tires. Right now, the Volt, the darling of the environmental ideologues (as opposed to the rest of us who love a clean environment), costs about $41,000 + $7,000 = $48,000. That is more than 4 times what I want to pay for a car.

  27. brucefast Says:

    I think the first things to go will be: capitol projects, R&D, and exploration in the energy field.

    Capitol projects: Pipelines, hydroelectric dams, and power lines will die on the vine as soon as LENR is heard above the noise. All of these sorts of projects need 50 years to pay for themselves. Only killing them makes sense. (However, there may be some political pressure to keep ‘em going because of the jobs that will be lost. This, however, is foolish thinking.)

    R&D: Could you imagine working as an engineer developing better wind or solar technologies. Your job is toast. What if you are working on improved internal combustion engine — outa here. That said, the first thing that will boom is R&D. R&D into Rossi-izing cars, boats, planes and trains will be booming. R&D into batteries, and of course anything that isn’t about energy will do just fine.

    Exploration: Yeah, like Exxon will want to run one more seismic grid. Like Exxon will want to drill one more exploratory well. Energy exploration (gas, oil, coal) will all come to a screeching halt far before energy extraction will seriously end. There may be some amount of energy spent on nickel, but I think that most of it will be misplaced because the Rossi system uses so little nickel, and the stuff is so abundant. I’m not investing in nickel futures, though it may go up some because of people’s ignorance.

    • Anony Mole Says:

      If there is any fear to be admitted to, it would be that of government control and suppression. We’ve touched on just a fraction of the disruptive impact NFE may have. No government is going to relinquish control over energy easily or gently. Especially this government where corporate control is built in. In fact, although Rossi has alluded to aligning his permitting and compliance ducks, as mentioned by others elsewhere on your site, getting past the DOE, EPA, PUCs, (ABCs and XYZs) will be nearly impossible I posit.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        I tend to agree, the government is the problem in energy. However Rossi has said he is shooting for August as the time for shipping his home systems. Once this occurs, they will have a hard time controlling things.

  28. Craig Binns Says:


    August. When will you give up? August? No, you’ll find yet another excuse. But by that time the only people even thinking about Rossi will be a small group of conspiracy theorists on the extreme margin of rational thought … if not beyond it!

    • Anony Mole Says:

      Mr. Binns, you’re an odd sort of fellow, no?

      • You post on an obviously fringe site about an obviously fringe technology, yet, here you are.

      • No one anywhere on the net has any better information than you or I or anyone on this site, it’s all pure speculation. We all admit that. Yet you seem to accept all of this as fact. Only time will tell.

      • By your presence here you must have some inner dream that nearly-free-energy, in the hands of the populace, would be a good thing, otherwise, why bother?

      • Admitting the dearth of facts surrounding this development, most are here, I would gather, to dream of this world of NFE. To speculate about what might happen. To support what would be a truly cool discovery in the history of mankind.

      So, rather than be continuously confrontational, why not contribute rather than just poke sharp sticks? Substantiate your opinion by adding ideas rather than just digging at others. This is all in fun. Serious fun hopefully, but fun and entertaining foremost. Why spoil it?

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        Mr Mole,

        If you need more proof than the following then I wonder what you are waiting for? The MSM to give you permission to believe the truth??

        There is a new clean energy technology that is one tenth the cost of coal. LENR using nickel. Incredibly: Ni+H(heated under pressure)=Cu+lots of heat. This phenomenon (LENR) has been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers:

        “Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than chemical…” –Dennis M. Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center

        “Energy density many orders of magnitude over chemical.” Michael A. Nelson, NASA

        “Total replacement of fossil fuels for everything but synthetic organic chemistry.” –Dr. Joseph M. Zawodny, NASA

        According to Forbes, electricity will be “too cheap to meter” if Rossi’s Oct 28 demonstration succeeds:

        Here’s the latest, according to MSNBC it passed the test:

        By the way, here is a current survey of all the companies that are bringing LENR to commercialization:

      • Anony Mole Says:

        +Brad Arnold, preaching to the choir here. I’ve read every possible scrap of news about LENR, Rossi, NASA, et al. But the simple fact that we’re even having this discussion means that the coin is still in the air, cards are dealt but the dealer’s not showin’, fishin’ pole is out, hook baited but our basket is still empty.

        I, as do others, await news with bated breath…

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Anony Mole,

        I think that I see the coin on the ground, but the light isn’t right so I can’t see whether it is heads or tail. The dealer has a smile on her face and is holding her cards ready to flip, but I can’t yet see what they are. Something is pulling on my fishin’ pole, but I can’t tell if it is an old tire, a cat fish, or a sturgeon.


    • Bob Norman Says:

      Craig, when will I give up? Probably never as the technology has been shown to be real. Is it CF or LENR, don’t know and really don’t care. As an engineer that builds things its a technology that can be used. With what is proven by excess heat in various labs and experiments, I believe it to be real. Rossi is just the guy that has found a way to get the most out of the phenomena. There will be others and it will be a world changing technology. Will he ship in August. Don’t know, but if he doesn’t, my best guess is that it will be caused by government dragging their feet, fueled by lobbyists with self serving motives. Your unfounded negativity just gives those that want to kill it, as they can point to your comments and say see, its a fraud. All the facts tell me its real, I hope August is a great month with product shipment, but if it doesn’t I won’t despair, for the base technology is real and it will get here. I find your closed mind quite interesting!

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Very well said, Bob Norman! The person that should give up and read/watch the data is Craig Binns, whose name is becoming synonymous with those naysayers who refuse to look through Galileo’s telescope.

        Right now we are concerned with whether Rossi can deliver a consumer product. Whether LENR is real or not is settled.

        Rossi has shown us that a LENR can be a strong reaction. Other than that, we await the evidence.

  29. Roger Bird Says:

    I suspect that the first caveman to pick up a firebrand tried to suggest to everyone else that he could control fire and that we should all have some in a little place in our caves to keep the predators away and keep warm during cold whether. Everyone became excited about the possibilities.

    Then he accidentally dropped some sparks on his “bear rug” “clothes” and burned his fingers and everyone walked away discouraged and the control of fire did not occur for another 100,000 years. Meanwhile, 1,000,000 people died of cold and predation.

    Despite my belief in LENR (yes, Craig, I have been an LENR believer for months, since I looked at and saw the evidence. What a freaking concept!!!), controlling and sustaining this “fire” has not been demonstrated by Rossi. And recently his statements about Home Depot sound like BS, not just because of all the certifications that he will need, but just because of the emotional hyperbole. (His talk about Home Depot sounds like a crazy person.) Since we know that he can have an impressive reaction, he may be BSing about the sustainability or the control. Or perhaps he is so excited about his progress that the hyperbole forced it’s way out. We will just have to wait patiently.

  30. Brad Arnold Says:

    Bob Norman Says:

    December 23, 2011 at 7:15 pm
    “Brad, you captured my interest on the technology that Exon Mobile is working on. Any links or words you can share.”


    Yeah, I was pushing (before I learned about LENR) a GMO that turned CO2 into CH4. Actually approached a few politicians about promoting it because it would have meant that CO2 was an asset not a liability (i.e. for instance instead of pumping liqified CO2 underground from coal plants – very expensive and logistically impractical – they could convert it into “natural gas”).

    I don’t know if it was me or not, but Exxon/Mobile found out about it and basically took over funding for it. Obviously, LENR trumps that and any other form of energy production I’ve seen.

    I have much more information about it – email me if you want it – space limitations here prevent me from going into detail. (

    • Bob Norman Says:

      Thanks Brad, very interesting. I sent you an email. It sounds like something to still push, CO2 will still be around for a long time.

    • Jonathan Says:

      That’s not particularly remarkable in the overall scheme of things. Plants turn CO2 into carbon based fuels such as carbon, ethanol and various types of vegetable oil. Anaerobic bacteria can turn that into CO4. This GMO presumably cuts out the middle stage, but will still need an input energy of some sort, most likely sunlight. Is this better than growing trees for firewood, oilseed, or sugarcane? Possibly it is, especially if it does’t require so much water. Will it be cheaper than the Shale Gas fields that are being developed at the moment? Maybe your information includes the answer to those questions, but I don’t think it is anything like as revolutionary as LENR or cold fusion. In some ways that could be a good thing as it can used in place of natural gas without any modification.

  31. Bob Says:

    You can bet on most things in Vegas, I wonder if you can get a bet down on over/under the million shipment mark. I have worked in projects that shipped in these type of numbers, believe me, shipping a million anything is hard to accomplish. When you start out there is always production problems, material flow issues and test issues that always seem monumental. If your shipping anything in the million numbers it takes 2 to 3 years to get the flow going well. The only way you achieve these numbers early on is working everyone to excess and paying overtime that kills your profit. I personally think I would celebrate and call a year of production of over 250K a great success and double it for the next year. If you expand beyond that type of growth you burn huge amounts of money and must have very deep pockets. More than likely, robotics and test jigs and programs will need to be working and in place to make big numbers. So far, I don’t have a sense that any of these things are in place.

    Rossi is shooting way to high, much lower numbers are realistic, but I could be wrong and hope I am for all our sake, just don’t be disappointed if the numbers come in much lower. I would even be happy with a thousand if they ship and are reported on openly, a revolution takes more than a day!

    • Brad Arnold Says:

      I agree Bob. I think he is shooting high for a couple of reasons, not least of which is to spook Defkalion. Since you have experience working on projects of that volume, I would ask, would a deep pocket partner, and another experienced partner (NI), make such a goal more attainable? Given the guaranteed huge market and very high demand, a backer would feel very comfortable expanding extremely rapidly and simultaneously (instead of cautiously and linearly).

      BTW, I’ll repeat again, I think even at a million household LENR generators a year, the demand will be so great that it wouldn’t adversely affect Defkalion. Also I would REALLY like to know Rossi’s plans to penetrate China – that could really proceed exponentially.

      • brucefast Says:

        “I think even at a million household LENR generators a year, the demand will be so great that it wouldn’t adversely affect Defkalion.”

        You have the picture about right. There is PLENTY of room for both Rossi and Defkalion as there is plenty of room for multiple car companies.

      • Alain Says:

        and even for many coo-petitors, like DGT licencee…
        I won’t be surprized that Saunier Duval in france jump on the train, if they are smart…

        it make me feel like the car cost reduction of the 50s, when people were happy to buy a 2 horsePower car and wait for 6 month…
        at the same time unemployment was a souvenir.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I want to point something out to all of you geniuses. Remember the video of how the guy at Missouri came to become a believer. Someone asked him to go to Israel and inspect their “cold fusion” experiment. And our Missouri friend (I am not real good with names) came back a believer. Remember how BIG and ELABORATE that lab was. Remember that an independent guy (our Missouri friend) who was initially a disbeliever confirmed that the cold fusion was real (which would be something that would impress other Israelis).

        So, when we talk about cold fusion and see lists of those who have replicated cold fusion, how come I never see anything about Israel? My point is that there is way more going on in the world of cold fusion development than we see. 2012 will be the end of the world as we know it.

      • brucefast Says:

        “Remember the video of how the guy at Missouri came to become a believer….” Man, Roger, when you bump into interesting bits like this, you really need to bookmark the site, otherwise your conversation becomes heresay.

        “2012 will be the end of the world as we know it.”
        Yes it will. It will be the year of energy freedom. It may also be the end of the first-world economy.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        This dude here: Somewhere else he said that he was a staunch disbeliever, and someone told him to go to Israel or invited him to go to Israel, where they had an elaborate and big lab, and he came away a believer.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Brad, having deep pocket partners and good scientific partners like NI can help a lot, but when you getting things going, you can’t just through bodies into the breach, they just stack up and can slow you down trying to get new people productive. It will help, but things just sort of require time to work through regardless of resources.
        I think the demand for this will be so huge that it will be 10 years of production growth before growth curves even start to level off. Just my opinion.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Roger, I remember reading an article about the guy that had the breakthrough in Israel and how they all celebrated. Not much since, which is disappointing. It was about a year ago I read this.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Bob Norman, I doubt if you have not heard anything since because they have not made any progress. I suspect that you have not heard anything since because either they or the government have put the secrecy clamp on the whole thing. If little ol’ Rossi all by himself, with not much funding, can make such progress, surely these guys in Israel can also make some progress.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I am the only one who thinks that it is possible that Rossi is getting free advice from all of us who post in these kinds of forums? When people started screaming that Home Depot would not accept any product unless it was certified and that certification took time, Rossi “clarified” his statement about Home Depot. He will now clarify the 1 million E-cats in 2012. Are we helping him with his project? I have always been impressed with the caliber of intellects posting on these LENR forums.

      • Bob Norman Says:

        Roger, I think Rossi learns a lot from all the blogs. He has literally thousands of minds giving advice and free ideas. He is able to listen to arguments and pick which way makes sense to him. Few people ever get this opportunity. Yes, to some extent he is playing us for his end, but that’s what good business people do.
        The government regulations and stone walling is what is to be feared the most.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I’m surprised he has time to tend to his own blog, much less the many other believer-blogs. He may however, google a username for a suspicious query on his blog.

      • brucefast Says:

        I’m with Iggy on this. He does seem to read his own blog, but I have no reason to believe he reads any others. That said, he probably maintains relationship with some who do read the other blogs. In that way, we all have our way of influencing the great Dr. Rossi even by posting here.

        Iggy and Bob, you have both been effective at posting on Rossi’s blog and getting responses.

  32. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Just listened to 90 min Sterling Allan interview with Rossi on SmartScarecrow.

    Biggest news to me was that there is no hydrogen canister and no hydrogen must be replaced at 180 day refueling. Rossi didn’t say so, but maybe the hydrogen is supplied via metal-hybride. Rossi said that activation is no longer activated with pressure but with temperature. He said the home unit would require 2.7 kw input during initial startup. He said the refuel canister may cost as low as $10. He estimated the cost of the home unit as being between $400 & $500. Rossi said the home unit was best suited to provide home heat, and less suited for warm bath water (I didn’t understand the problem here). There was no mention of the heat-pump attachment.

    Rossi repeated that Massachusetts was a likely manufacturing site and that he would be visiting that state next year. I’m guessing that the fuel canisters will be built there.

    The sound was spotty and watching the youtube will probably reveal some info that I missed.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      And oh yes, Rossi said he had already submitted a home unit to UL for certification.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Aussie Guy’s recollection of interview:

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I read Aussie Guy’s report. Excellent.

        It brings to mind the following idea. Batteries would be necessary to start the system that was completely independent. But batteries sometimes fail. This would mean that a small solar panel charging multiple batteries would be valuable to insure constant energy in the home. Where I live, such would be necessary. One night without heat could kill a person.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I believe there’s no problem on the E-Cat’s ability to provide hot bath water. Apparently Rossi is accustomed to using instant on/off tankless water-heaters. In the US most homes have hot-water tanks which provide a buffer to compensate for the E-Cat’s slow response.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        For instance, I just bought a DVD of “Courageous”, a popular new Christian home value movie. I offered to give it to my church for showing to the congregation. The preacher said that the church would have to pay a royalty before he played it to the congregation. He said he could probably loan it out individually to members. If an individual member showed the DVD to a group, that individual would be legally liable to the DVD producer.

    • Bob Says:

      The interview was most revealing. The unit being about the size of a cigar box is very different than what I had imagined. also the core being the size of a cigaret pack.
      The home unit has one core giving 10K seems to contradict earlier numbers given out, but maybe my memory is failing.
      At 400 to 500 dollars every home will have several of them. I have been counting uses on my farm and I could use 10 right away.

      What do you thing by his offering to license. What does that mean to you.

      • Gregoryyc Says:

        I also listened for long and short but I also do not understand ” licensing” bit. What’s he refering to ?. Alan should’ve asked the man to clear that up but he went over it as if he knew .
        Is he talking about selling part or servicing part? Sure as hell he’s NOT gonna let any one of us to build it… And then marketing is supposed to be done through large national and/or international chain stores. So what’s left huh ? And then again. Is he gonna only let HVAC companies to do it ? But then he did say that the E-cat unit will be simple enough for home owners to replace the cartridge and the rest will be pretty much automatic… But if there is something that i can do I sure want that license. How much is it then ? What’s involved ? WE need to clear this up from the man directly.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I’m hoping that ‘licensing’ refers to allowing other manufacturers to build appliances or products with the eCat being an integral part. Maybe a waterheater with a slot to insert an eCat…..or an airconditioning system tailored to the eCat.

      • Bob Says:

        I don’t think you can restrict usage of a device. If I want to build my own piece meal car I’m free to use radiators, engines and such for that purpose. I’m still confused?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Bob says, “I don’t think you can restrict usage of a device.”

        I may be wrong but I believe the owner of a product can restrict and control the use of that product in a larger commercial product. You are free of course to do what you wish for your own private use.

        For instance, purchasers of copyrighted music cannot resell that music without permission of the producer.

      • Jonathan Says:

        If you want to build your own car, you can, but you will need to get safety approvals for it, and you may struggle to get insurance. There are lots of small car manufacturers around so it isn’t impossible. I guess one of them will be the first to run with it rather than the likes of Ford. Also, I think it is more likely to be a truck manufacturer, because trucks do very high mileage and use lots of fuel, so the ongoing savings in running costs for them provide a better margin for product development costs while still making the numbers add up for the end user.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I think better than alerting our federal government about LENR and the E-Cat would be voting as close to the libertarian ideal this coming November as your conscience will allow. So much of the concerns I see here lately are what will the government allow and not allow. We need more freedom right now, not more of the same big government interfering with our lives.. Freedom is a worship word.

      • Bob Says:

        Iggy, this is interesting. If a buy a CD and want to insert that CD in a marketing brochure, your saying I can’t. I know I don’t have the right to buy one copy it and ship those. If I buy each CD I thought it was mine to do with. I’m not undercutting his sales as I payed for each one shipped out. Now that you bring it up, I suspect your right and the legal beagles would look at it differently.

      • brucefast Says:

        Jonathan, “If you want to build your own car, you can, but you will need to get safety approvals.”

        I don’t know for sure with cars, but with airplanes they have a special category called “experimental”. Experimental planes meet a much lower threshold of flight certification. I strongly expect that experimental cars are the same.

  33. Bob Says:

    Yesterday on the Vortex, there was a guy that said he knew where the MW system had been sent and that it was being used by NI for better control development.
    He stated that the customer wold get massive amounts of energy and then go quiet and have to be restarted. This was the big issue the the MW plant. Others chimed in and said that others had experienced the same thing with PD-D systems.
    There was a lot of speculation as to what causes it. Surface area loss for the reaction seems most plosable to me. This is where good engineering can step in and solve it before the details are understood.

    • brucefast Says:

      First, I wouldn’t put much weight into heresay. It doesn’t make sense to me that NI would be effectively buying the privilege of working with Rossi.

      Second, Defkalion claims both that they believe that Rossi’s technology has such an issue, but that they fixed it. I understand that they say that they fixed it by making the heat more even inside the chamber. As Rossi has been working with the guy that tested the 1mw plant, and as they have increased the temperature enormously, I doubt if this would remain an issue.

      Third, every demo that Rossi made was shut down in a controlled fashion. I find it surprising to think that the thing would run for periods as long as 18 hours, be fully functional for all that time, but still have an “intermittent” issue.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        It would be incredibly unfair and heart breaking if either Rossi OR Defkalion did not succeed. They both have taken huge risks, worked hard, and they both are saving the world from pollution.

      • Bob Says:

        NI was using the MW on loan to solve the stopping problem. The customer has turned it over to them to allow them to work on resolving the problem. He further stated that the other 12 units will be canceled unless this issue is resolved in reasonable time. I know this was third party heresay, but he presented if factually and the others seemed to know him so it seemed as legitimate as much of what we read. Others chimed in and talked about this as being a known problem and cited specifics. I think I’ll believe the report.

  34. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    This was something I missed:

    “Q) Will the home E-Cat have a primary fluid other than water (for example molten salt), that travels through a heat exchanger? Or will the primary fluid be water?
    I’m still curious if the ‘heat pump’ is still a standard feature on the 1st generation domestic E-Cat?

    • Bob Says:

      Iggy, it is confusing. He switches back and forth from the commercial and home. I think the home is water and when he goes to electricity he will be switching to oil.
      The heat pump is a good question, maybe he will price the basic unit at $500 and add $100 more if you want the heat pump.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Andrea Rossi
        January 17th, 2012 at 10:06 AM

        Dear Iggy Dalrymple:
        The air conditioner will be an optonal.
        Warm Regards,

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I wouldn’t be surprised if the heat-pump option didn’t double the price.

      • brucefast Says:

        Iggy, I know you want air conditioning. However, an e-cat based cooling system is a lot more complicated than an e-cat based heating system. I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        That was my thinking, but if Rossi can pull it off, I’m game. Lack of heat isn’t so much of a problem in Florida….as too much heat. Just the opposite in your neck of the woods.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I need both, so that make my situation doubly complicated.

      • brucefast Says:

        Certainly so today. Its -40 here. WHERE’S MY E-CAT!

  35. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    from ecatnews comment: “The Year of The Cat”

  36. Roger Bird Says:

    Hey, Craig, it should warm your heart (assuming that you have one) to know that I have thought a lot about you today.

    To refuse to look at evidence because one does not believe is the opposite of insisting upon looking at fantasies because one does believe. But opposites can be two sides of the same coin. By avoiding looking at evidence, you are akin to those who insist upon taking fantasies as real. The UFO junkies take to be true what is untrue. The obsessive skeptic takes to be untrue what is true.

  37. Roger Bird Says:

    Craigy Pooh, why is it that we don’t have enough evidence in quality and/or quantity to say that the E-Cat is real (which I don’t), but you have enough evidence to condemn Rossi as a crook? Please explain that to me.

    [Perhaps it is because you are a mind reader; I forgot about that.]

  38. Roger Bird Says:

    Craig, does this mean that it is easier for you to try to destroy someone’s good name than it is to believe that not everything is known at the quantum level (which every quantum physicist in the world will admit to.)?

  39. Jonathan Says:

    I’ve just listened to Rossi’s 14th January interview. My predictions for 2012.

    Nothing much will happen next year. He doesn’t start production until the autumn, and doesn’t start shipping until near the end of the year, that’s of course assuming the timetable doesn’t slip.

    The initial version of the e-cat will only do hot water, it isn’t hot enough to power a steam engine, so it is only suitable for space heating. That’s useful for some people, not for me, because my heating bill is only about £30 per year, so $500 for the e-cat + about $10 per year for fuel doesn’t give me the ROI that justifies buying one.

    Initially, as with all new technologies, only the “innovators” are going to buy one, and for this, it means some of the people who frequent sites such as this one, and who live in colder parts of the world with high heating bills. In this first wave of sales, I think he will be lucky to sell 100 of them, so I’m worried that his plans to start production at 1,000,000 units per year is a very bad business decision.

    A lot of people are skeptical about whether or not this actually works. It doesn’t necessarily mean they think Rossi is a fraud, they just don’t have the evidence to make an informed judgement one the matter, and it is always the case that the first release of a groundbreaking technology such as this has problems that are ironed out in later releases.

    A shipping product will answer the skeptics one way or another, and the early adopters will be able to demonstrate it to their friends which will help build up the second wave of sales to early adopters.

    If the next version is able to heat up water hot enough to power an electric generator, then it starts to get much more interesting, and at that point, I am more likely to consider buying one.

    I’m not so convinced we will see e-cats used in transportation, mainly due to the fact it takes about 1 hour to start up the e-cat, then about another 20 minutes to heat up a steam engine before you can start the car. Then there is the issue of the range on a tank of water. Traditional steam engines back in the days when they were in common use in cars had a range of about 20 miles. More modern ones can recycle the water, but it seems they still only have a range of about 100 miles. I think it is more likely that energy from an e-cat would be used to produce synthetic fuels. Hydrogen is the most obvious option, but if someone can produce synthetic oil from it, that would be a more popular option. Of course it would need to be competitive with oil from the ground, and with reduced demand from other energy requirements, the price per barrel could go down quite a bit. If you have shares in companies that are heavily invested in tar sands, now is probably a good time to sell, but middle eastern oil I think will still be in demand for some time.

    We won’t see any major changes until this gets to the “early majority” phase. That’s probably going to be the 2nd half of this decade at the earliest, but if Rossi makes the wrong call about production levels, as I fear he has, he’s probably going to be bankrupt before then.

    • brucefast Says:

      “I’m not so convinced we will see e-cats used in transportation, mainly due to the fact it takes about 1 hour to start up the e-cat, then about another 20 minutes to heat up a steam engine before you can start the car.”

      What if we just constantly keep the e-cat and the motor “hot”. That way there will be no delay in getting going in the morning.

      “More modern ones can recycle the water, but it seems they still only have a range of about 100 miles.”

      My understanding from Cyclone Power is that the thing needs no water recharge at all, or possibly like one would give a current car an oil change. The water doesn’t wear out, unless it gets dirty. The water doesn’t go anywhere.

      “In this first wave of sales, I think he will be lucky to sell 100 of them”

      He’s already got 10,000 of us signed up to buy one. (I think most of us who signed up were expecting a $2000 price tag.) My heating bill is $1,500 per year. Its a no-brainer for me, and for all of my neighbors. I expect that Rossi will have have no trouble selling a million units within one year from product release. However, most of that year will not be in 2012.

      I do think, however, that the biggest single thing that will happen this year is that the doubt will be fully gone for all who stay informed. I also think it’ll make the front page of Time.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      “it isn’t hot enough to power a steam engine”

      But Rossi claims his 1st generation domestic will offer an optional steam driven heat-pump. If the heat-pump version isn’t too expensive, and if it proves effective, then I could use a dozen.

      If NASA believes that LENR will power us to Mars then I’m confident that it will eventually power automobiles.

      There are a lot more than the ‘innovators’ that are interested in cheap heat.

      I agree that not many will be delivered until 2013.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Jonathan – as Bruce says, the Cyclone steam engine seems a good design, it condenses and re-uses all its water and thus doesn’t have the problems you envisage. The main problem is the hour or so start-up time on the current eCat design. I think that will be solved by either later versions from Rossi or from someone else – it’s not inherent in LENR as far as I can see. If the temperature is not high enough for a normal steam engine, then there is the Organic Rankine Cycle (ORC) which by using a low-boiling liquid and recycling can use pretty well any pre-specified temperature. Start-up time for the Cyclone engine is stated as 15 seconds with 1 minute to full power, and this would be about what I’d expect for any flash-boiler steam generator.

      Your heating bill of £30 would be reduced by using one of the new-generation eCats (if they work ;>)) since you get 180 days’ worth of 10KW for your $10 recharge, so at 18 days a year of heating that’s 10 years use. I suppose you have your own wood and are burning it, but I’d bet the chainsaw maintenance and fuel cost more than that unless you are running a zero-heating house. If you use only electricity for lighting, refrigeration, entertainment and PC, then with the new eCat and an ORC-based generator you can keep your batteries charged when the sun doesn’t shine. This also nicely gets round that 1-hour start-up time. That 10KW heat supply will translate to about 3KW of electricity when you want it, or soon after. Once energy is nearly-free, maybe you’ll find other uses for it that seemed profligate before.

      Hydrogen as a fuel, produced by whatever method, does have its drawbacks. It is a very hot flame, and hydrogen needs to be correctly handled all the way through storage, transfer, burner design and timing of the exhaust (cool it too much and it becomes an implosion). I don’t want to sound patronising here, but I think the level of care needed is beyond a lot of people who otherwise have no problems with methane, petrol or diesel fuels, though leaks will generally escape upwards safely. We’d see a lot more problems. Hydrogen embrittles a lot of metals and diffuses through quite a few, so you would not be able to use iron or its alloys in any engine or system that uses it. Rather than use hydrogen as the energy store between the nuclear reactor and the end user, it’s better to generate electricity – we are used to the dangers of that and probably by now the gene for being foolish with electricity has disappeared. Darwinism….

      As regards your thought that he would only sell 100 devices, I do think you are wrong there. If it works near enough to the specification, then for most people it is a no-brainer to get one. It will pay for itself in 6 months, and after that it’s going to cost a pint of beer for three months’ power. Yes there will be people who hang back for various reasons (possibly the “nuclear” tag or fear of new technology) but if he can’t sell all he can make I’ll be very surprised.
      I do agree with your timescale though. At least a year before anyone in the States gets hold of one, maybe a lot longer in Europe.

      • Jonathan Says:

        I use gas for heating, not wood. The boiler is set to the lowest possible setting, which heats the water to about 45°C. That is sufficient to heat my house. Other people of course do need a lot more heating, and the first generation e-cat will make sense for them. As I said, a later e-cat that can generate electricity will be of much more interest to me, as I would see a reasonable pay-back time – 4 months if the steam engine + generator were free, so obviously a bit more than that in reality.

        My figure for 100 sales is for the first year or so. Once it starts getting reviewed in more mainstream technical publications, and people actually know someone who has one and can visit their house to see it, then sales will begin to take off.

        I’ve looked at the Cyclone engine. There will be quite a bit of development required to make that work with the e-cat. That doesn’t mean it is impossible, but it will take a few years of development to turn it into a working product. The Cyclone requires a steam temperature of about 650°C. Currently the e-cat does 150, and Rossi has just about sorted out the issues to get it up to 400. I don’t know how high it can go without causing melt-down of the catalyst, but Rossi does say that if it gets too hot, the catalyst melts down and the reaction stops; which stops the dangerous situation you can get with uranium reactors, but does presumably mean the reactor is ruined. If you look at the design of the Cyclone, the design of the combustion chamber seems to be a very important factor in its quick start-up time. The e-cat module would need to be very tightly integrated into the overall design, and that is something Cyclone Power will have to work through with Rossi. It is a combined unit like this I would be looking to buy rather than the first generation e-cat on sale at the end of this year.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I wish to point out that if and when the E-Cat does a melt down, it will be some time before you know it, perhaps an hour or so. And then, you won’t know what it is that you know; you will just know that it is not putting out heat and you won’t know why. You won’t know that you have lump of useless nickel perhaps fused to the chamber wall. I guess this is better than the China syndrome with fission.

        Of course, you never have to worry about these things with hot fusion since hot fusion won’t ever work. (:->)

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Jonathan, I envy your house. To make mine that efficient, I’d have to rebuild the walls and I can’t afford that, so I am burning more wood than I’d like to. The wood was blown down a few years ago, so it’s carbon-neutral and I’ve saved the best bits for other uses, but I’d rather grow them than burn them.

        If NI with a reasonable advertising budget are now behind Rossi, you could expect to see a lot of people made aware of the product. If they are gearing up to produce 1 million devices as a start-off then telling people about it is a necessity – as you say the people who currently know are (apologies everyone) somewhat fringe. Again, wait for NI to acknowledge the association before getting too keen.

        As far as I can see, the modification to the Cyclone engine is simply to replace the rather nice burner design with a reactor and a good heat-dissipation device – if you will an efficient heat-sink. Again air-flow inwards past heated spiral vanes with the hottest part in the middle, or cut out the first heat-exchanger and put the eCat heat-dissipator directly into the water. Cyclone themselves say it will burn any fuel…. The temperature is somewhat more of a problem. I don’t know the composition and reaction to heat of the “catalyst”, but I suspect it has very high local temperatures (enough to melt the Nickel) in micron-sized reaction areas, and that the main problem is keeping the mass of it at a temperature that doesn’t give too many reactions. With better heat-transfer, this could be overcome and I think that a core temperature of maybe 800°C would be possible before softening of the Nickel would change the surface configuration. This change may either stop the reaction or accelerate it to melt-down levels and thus stop it. Heat transfer and good control are the things to attack first.

        So – some problems to overcome but I expect the device you want will arrive. It still has moving parts, so isn’t the ideal, but it’ll be a very good start. In the intervening years, at least you have low bills and a low carbon footprint.

    • brucefast Says:

      Simon Derricutt, “The main problem is the hour or so start-up time on the current eCat design.”

      My understanding is that the Defkalion system will start in 5 minutes. Also both Rossi and Defkalion are saying that they can operate above 400c. That’s plenty hot for steam.

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Bruce – I haven’t seen any demo of the Defaklion machine so far – it’s just specifications and I can produce these as well as anyone else. So I don’t know whether they are waiting for Rossi to sell some before coming out with their improved design.

        400°C is enough for some steam, but the Cyclone is quite a bit hotter to get its efficiency up. At the lower temperature, you’d need a bigger and heavier engine to get less efficient conversion, which is a disadvantage.

        Even so, I still think 5 minutes is probably too long to wait to start a car, though lorries (trucks) may find it OK.

  40. Bob Says:

    Here is an interesting post from the NASA guy. Food for thought on whats up. He is talking about LENR, so I’m inclined to think he had a breakthrough. Just some more rampant speculation.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Joe’s announcement sound incredibly encouraging. I hardly think that both Joe Z. and Andrea R. are both BSers, although they are both working on different types of LENR. Something amazing is going to happen soon, and we were there at it’s birth.

    • brucefast Says:

      Bob, please not the date on the report, 2009. I suspect that in 2009 Zawodny made a bit of an LENR breakthrough. But he has been careful to distance himself from Rossi, and to minimize the developmental stage of LENR. Obviously his 2009 breakthrough wasn’t all that huge.

      • Bob Says:

        My bad, I grabbed a post off ecatnew and didn’t realize it was an old post. He apologized for posting something old, but that’s no excuse, I should have caught it, the dates were right there, all I had to do was read!

  41. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Who Will Bury Fossil Fuel Economy In Russia?
    “Europe will successfully solve its energy problems with cold fusion, then no one else will need our gas and oil. Recall that the USSR collapsed, when plummeting energy prices. History repeats itself, and this time, falling prices for energy raw materials will destroy the Russian economy. Nothing is going to pay pensions and salaries to state employees, including police and army.”
    from arian’s post on eCatNews

    • Roger Bird Says:

      BUT, pensioners and state employees will need less salaries because they will have E-Cats. But since Russia’s economy is heavily energy, then, yes, Russia will be hurt badly, as will Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, etc. etc. Russians better start now learning how to make and use green houses. The Russian kardashians will have to learn how to work.

  42. suzuki motorcycles Says:

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