The Defkalion Announcement

I, as most, was expecting Defkalion to show of an actual working machine, or a report from a reputable testing firm.  However, what we got was a data sheet.  (Thanks to Bob Norman for the link.)

My guess is that their technology isn’t far enough along to show off publicly.

That said, you get what you get.  Let’s make the most of it.  Here are some interesting tidbits that I found while skimming the 21 pages of data:

> They have done a very nice job of avoiding the underlying science, stating, “Defkalion GT is an industrial company and not an academic or research institute with a role to state, prove and reject theories… (p. 21)

> A few single reactor Kernel specifications:  5 – 11 kw, Max temp 285c, 19.5 kg, max energy consumption for 1 hour run, 200Wh.  COP > 25 to 1.  Fuel life, 6 months.

> Multi-reactor even better as per: Max temperature 415c, COP > 35 to 1, Nickel life to 36 months.

(I find it a bit hard to understand that they can come up with a nickel powder life when they haven’t been testing product for even the length of one lifespan (6 months))

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33 Responses to “The Defkalion Announcement”

  1. Bob Says:

    I am very disappointing by today’s announcement. If they can put out a data sheet with specific numbers and describe their system they should be able to show a working system. I am losing faith that these guys are real. Any good Engineer could create a data sheet like what they gave out. Its better than nothing, but as an old commercial once stated, “Where’s the beef”.

    The chemical assist is most interesting!

  2. Craig Binns Says:

    “I, as most, was expecting Defkalion to show of an actual working machine, or a report from a reputable testing firm.  However, what we got was a data sheet.”

    No machine. No reputable reported tests. More disappointing than surprising, as far as I’m concerned.

    “What we got was a data sheet.” Bad enough. Worse still; we need to ask if we can believe what’s entered in it.

    Any indication when Hyperion is likely to be marketed to the public?

  3. kwhilborn Says:

    Sad… Defkalion sucks. This was their “BIG” announcement. egad.

  4. Roger Bird Says:

    Craig, get back to your assignment, you naughty boy!

  5. Roger Bird Says:

    It seems unlikely that two separate entities would be running the same con. It is only slightly disappoint for people who meditate. (:->) It seems to me that it says that they are serious about a product. But it still doesn’t prove that it works.

    • sdb Says:

      every con that makes money has multiple people independently running it.

      imho this announcement seems to make things more likely to be a con, but rationally it means exactly nothing.

  6. kwhilborn Says:

    They did not even comment on Andrea Rossi’s movement into electrical generation. They claim they have a superior product, but these are hot water heaters compared to Rossi’s new Hydrogen based turbine powering ecats.

    Their product is definitely inferior if they cannot produce electricity. These need to be powering cars soon, and the scientists at Defkalion should have been smart enough to figure out the “hydrogen” connection long ago;. I thought they were throwing money at this?

    Obviously not Rossi 2 Defkalion 0 Piantelli 0

    • brucefast Says:

      The only thing that has changed with Rossi is that he has achieved stable heat of 415c. This temperature is great for power generation using existing turbines. As Defkalion claims that they have achieved the same heat range, they have answered your question — their described technology plus existing turbine generators = electricity.

  7. maryyugo Says:

    “It seems unlikely that two separate entities would be running the same con.”

    Of course they could be. My pet theory is that Defkalion built up equipment and designs based on what Rossi promised to deliver in terms of a core device. They may have simulated the core with an electrical heater. Then Rossi failed to deliver, perhaps because his stuff doesn’t really work. Then Defkalion didn’t pay him and decided to hope against hope they could figure out Rossi’s method or get the equivalent elsewhere.

    The rest of my wild guesses is that they can’t because nothing that will work exists. If that’s true, they won’t do any tests.

    • Jim Pelsor Says:

      At a guess you’ve hit the nail on the head. Rossi’s business address in NH is at most a single family home and the business manager appears to work primarily for a fraternal organization. It looks more and more like LENR is still an experimental artifact that isn’t reliably repeatable. Like the US commercial space program – the schedule is likely to slide by years. At least space ‘X’ unequivocably demonstrated a working prototype. I’d love to see the same demonstration made for LENR – not a disappearing trailer hooked up to a backup generator for a three hour ‘demonstration.

  8. Roger Bird Says:

    Let us keep in mind that what we think will do exactly zip to Rossi or Defkalion. They have absolutely no reason to care what we think or how we feel. Their only concern is to make money. So don’t get too upset about the data sheet. Time will tell whether they have a real heater or not.

    • brucefast Says:

      I agree that our opinion means nothing to Rossi or to Defkalion. I am also sure that they are very interested in the money. However, “Their only concern is to make money” is not likely true. They’ve got egos invested, pride and reputation are on the line. I am sure that both of them are convinced that they will be much better at spending the money than the other guy. Rossi seems to want to rescue the children of the world. Defkalion seems to want to raise Greece out of their economic nightmare.

      In any case, money isn’t the be all and end all. In fact money is the end for virtually no-one. The only reason money is brought to the table is because it is the universal interface between us and so much (but not all). We want money because it gives us opportunity. We want money as a symbol of our significance or importance. The latter is somewhat of a tragedy — having wealth merely for wealth’s sake in a world of desperate need. If you find yourself in this situation, I highly recommend studying the life of Bill Gates.

  9. Craig Binns Says:


    How much time will tell if they have a real heater? How long will you give them?

    • brucefast Says:

      Craig, make sure you are the judge of other people’s standards, ok. If another person says that they need to see such and such by such time — you make sure that the “such and such” is up to your standard of definition. That’s your job, your responsibility to the world.

      • Craig Binns Says:

        You have agreed with me in principle on this question. Interminable delays are intolerable. Fix a date. You thought as I do that Rossi should be given to end December – a mere month away now – and then dismissed as failed.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Craig, there is no need to dismiss him as failed by some date. It will come to people individually as they see fit. Many will just lose interest, and years from now they will say, “Andrea Rossi, I remember him. I guess he was a fraud.”, or something like that.

      • brucefast Says:

        I gave Rossi to the end of December to deliver a plant. He has. I know you don’t think he has, but he still has.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig, I can’t give or take away time from them. I can, however, be patient.

      Did you do your homework?

  10. Craig Binns Says:


    I’m convinced you’re right. Rossi and Defkalion began as collaborators. Their concepts, even if they evolved differently, had the same starting point, so it’s not a question of two entirely independent developments, or “separate entities”.

  11. Craig Binns Says:


    If it happens, you will gloat and dance, but if it doesn’t (and it won’t!) you won’t be humble and apologise because in that case, as you state above,

    “there is no need to dismiss him as failed by some date. It will come to people individually as they see fit. Many will just lose interest, and years from now they will say, ‘Andrea Rossi, I remember him. I guess he was a fraud.’, or something like that.”

    It is that sort of asymmetry of response to the two possible outcomes that means that the scammers are rewarded, and their willing victims never learn. Their minds are programmed to believe, not to think.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Craig, you could be right. I am being unfair.

      This is my thinking, as I examine it honestly. Everyone hates scammers. Rossi thousands of miles away can only help me, but he can’t really hurt me. But anal retentive uptight skeptical science types have been a thorn in my side for a long time. No progress is EVER made by skeptical science types. Explorers and discoverers are ALWAYS people who are willing to think and try new things. And skeptical science types put them down maliciously until their discoveries are proven to be true, and then say, “Hey, we knew it was so all along.” or “Hey, we discovered it.”

    • Bob Says:

      Sometimes you just run out of money before the answer is arrived at. I have seen several projects that got close, but didn’t get there, only to have someone else figure it out at a later date and reap the rewards. Serendipity can play a big role at times.
      Personally I think there is something going on and from all my reading, the one that appeals to me is Aherns ideas on particle activity.

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