New Energy and Fuel reports a breakthrough in thermoelectric technology.
The technology is apparently up to 15% efficient. This will be quite effective for a very small configuration of e-cat. If one were to take a small format e-cat which produces 1 kw, and match it with this technology one would end up with a relatively useful 150 watts. The smaller format e-cat core would potentially be really quite small. The amount of thermal and radiation shielding required is certainly still a question. A complete system would have to contain a battery sufficient to provide starting heat. The whole rig might be able to fit into a lunch box — maybe.
Tags: cold fusion, e-cat, thermoelectric
November 19, 2011 at 7:18 pm |
It would seem that modern society is being pulled from two contradictory directions. We all want to live in a peaceful, green idyllic environment. Most of us all want the gadgets and goodies that energy provides. Conflicts like this are not necessarily bad. This conflict forces us to think how to bridge the gap. It challenges us. This is good. The greenies hate the industrialization. The people who like industrialization resent the greenies. But other than that hatred, it is all good.
November 19, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
It would seem that this system, incorporating these thermoelectric’s with an e-cat, could be ramped up to run an electric vehicle…
Neil Taylor
November 19, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
Neil – A car has a pretty high energy need, you would have to have a pretty big ecat to get the energy you need. I could be wrong, but that seems a bit of a stretch.
November 19, 2011 at 9:49 pm
A really big stretch. Thermoelectric devices are already in use for, among other things, driving stovetop fans to circulate warm air in large rooms. Have a look, for example, at the “ecofan” here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ecofan-Original-100-CFM-Caframo-Wood-Stove-Fan-/320627059530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa6dcab4a#ht_500wt_689
The inefficiency of the heat to electricity conversion is irrelevant in such applications because wood burning stoves get very hot, and fans use very little power.
But the Rossi mechanism allegedly produces steam (if it works at all, which I don’t believe), and it would always be more effective, even given an improved conversion rate of 15%, to use this steam directly to heat spaces, or propel vehicles. Steam has been used for these purposes for 200 years.
Supporters of Rossi’s alleged miracle working contraption may attempt to enhance its credibility by trying to link it in people’s minds with real, useful and demonstrably authentic developments in energy generation. Thermoelectrics works, and there is no mystery about who is buying its products, or where they are manufactured. When will the e-cat be in this happy situation, I wonder?
November 19, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
This might be the perfect solution for small tools or games. 15% seems low, but it just might be attractive for some solutions.
November 20, 2011 at 1:44 am |
I don’t think steam cars will win.
I think there will be a LENR reactor insight the closed loop of a Stirling engine and that produces electricity to power the eCar.
And the best: Cars change from energy consumer to an clean green energy producer. eCar with LENR-Stirling Engine will supply electricity to homes an the grid.
LENR4you
November 20, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
LENRyou, have you read my case for the steam car?
Return of the Steam Car
While you may ultimately be right, there’s a lot to be said for directly driving the wheels with steam.
November 20, 2011 at 10:10 pm
Professor Jay Leno, a leading expert on steam cars, said that the steam car that he was demonstrating had something like 1200 degrees F. going under the hood, or some really high figure. I don’t recall exactly what it was. But it was high. Can an E-Cat get that high, assuming that the E-Cat is real?
November 20, 2011 at 7:47 am |
Not following this. If it outputs 1 Kw thermal at a 1:6 COP you need an electrical input of 166 watts. So if this thermal/electrical converter is 15% efficient you get a net gain of 150 – 166 or a total electrical output of – 16 watts.
I guess that proves the E-cat doesn’t work? Watts up with that?
November 20, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
6 is the minimum COP. During self sustaining operation COP is much higher.
November 20, 2011 at 8:46 pm
In self-sustain mode COP is theoretically infinite. It isn’t truly as there is a “cost” to the nickel and hydrogen, further there may be a “frequency” involved in the equation, but the gain is well into the hundreds, probably thousands.
November 20, 2011 at 10:11 pm
If you get up to the thousands of COP, you might have a problem. (:->)
November 20, 2011 at 8:47 pm |
“I guess that proves the E-cat doesn’t work? Watts up with that?” Huh?
November 25, 2011 at 8:34 am |
I wonder if his ‘breakthrough’ is thermoelectric?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rossi said in the interview that production of electricity from the E-Cat has always been for him a major target and that “it will take, until the last week I said a couple of years, but today I can say one year because today, just today, (I don’t know because today is 11.11.11) we have resolved a very big problem which has made very short the time remaining to be able to produce also electric power, beside heat and cool with these apparatuses.”
http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/andrea-rossi-electricity-from-e-cat-possible-within-a-year/
November 25, 2011 at 10:59 am |
Iggy, I don’t think that is it, wish it was. Rossi has stated that he has found a new fluid that lets him un at 450 degrees Centigrade, so he can work with regular turbines. He said the new fluid runs with the reactor in a stable manor. It looks like he is starting to get a handle on the stability issue. He said he learned a lot from the military guy that ran the tests for the Oct 28 testing. He mentioned someone he is working with Fioravanti also. Here is a link.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/andrea-rossi-working-with-domenico-fioravanti-on-electrical-power-from-e-cat/
November 25, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I wonder what Rossi means by ‘primary fluid’? Another heat transfer fluid for the water jacket? Like the heat transfer oil he mentioned a couple of months back? Or is he talking about a reaction fluid inside the reactor?
November 25, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Iggy, he would clearly be talking about the cooling liquid, a replacement for the water. It would likely be a heat transfer oil or liquid salt (not usually sodium chloride).
December 13, 2011 at 4:15 am |
Dear Mr. Rossi,
think not only in megawatts.
Also µW are interesting.
The world’s smallest Stirling engine measures a few micrometers. Built in Stuttgart Germany:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-world-smallest-steam-micrometers.html
That’s the advantage of LENR energy: Scalable Nuclear energy densities from µW to GW.
Greetings LENR4you
December 30, 2011 at 8:25 am |
Neil Taylor
December 30th, 2011 at 1:47 AM
Dear Mr. Rossi,
This NEW technology for converting heat to electricity may be a possibility for marrying with your E-Cat. Here is the companies website link:
http://www.etalim.com/index.php
~~~~~
~~~~~
Andrea Rossi
December 30th, 2011 at 4:19 AM
Dear Neil Taylor:
Thank you, I am going to study also this,
Warm regards,
A.R.
December 30, 2011 at 8:48 am |
I see where Quax already posted on this in May.
January 10, 2012 at 10:54 pm
Iggy, there is a guy in Texas that has something almost identical. He came out of the Satellite efforts and has developed a device similar to what they use in space. He uses the same concept and has pretty good working devices, but his efficiency looks closer to 25 to 30 %. Her is his link.
http://www.prismnet.com/~frg/
I often wondered why this hasn’t caught on more.
January 11, 2012 at 6:46 am
Looks like his 1993 patent is near expiration.
January 21, 2012 at 9:46 am |
This device may help on start-up:
http://www.ergenics.com/page22.htm
January 21, 2012 at 10:05 am |
Please explain to me why the solenoid should cause the “heater bed” to get so hot.
January 21, 2012 at 12:38 pm
I haven’t a clue.
January 21, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Ah, I found it.
January 21, 2012 at 2:34 pm
I am proud to say that I got the joke within 10 seconds of his opening his mouth. (:->)
April 28, 2012 at 6:42 am |
Thane C Heins regenerative motor.
April 28, 2012 at 7:02 am |
3rd party replication of Heins effect.
April 28, 2012 at 7:22 am
“Perepiteia’s process begins by overloading the generator to get a current, which typically causes the wire coil to build up a large electromagnetic field. Usually, this kind of electromagnetic field creates an effect called the back electromotive force (back EMF) due to Lenz’s law. The effect should repel the spinning magnets on the rotor, and slow them down until the motor stops completely, in accordance with the law of conservation. However, instead of stopping, the rotor accelerates – i.e. the magnetic friction did not repel the magnets and wire coil. Heins states that the steel rotor and driveshaft had conducted the magnetic resistance away from the coil and back into the electric motor. In effect, the back EMF was boosting the magnetic fields used by the motor to generate electrical energy and cause acceleration. The faster the motor accelerated, the stronger the electromagnetic field it would create on the wire coil, which in turn would make the motor go even faster. Heins seemed to have created a positive feedback loop. To confirm the theory, Heins replaced part of the driveshaft with plastic pipe that wouldn’t conduct the magnetic field. There was no acceleration.[7]
Scientific examination
In early 2008, Heins was given access to equipment to demonstrate it by professor Riadh Habash of the University of Ottawa, who says of it, “It accelerates, but when it comes to an explanation, there is no backing theory for it. That’s why we’re consulting MIT. But at this time we can’t support any claim.”[8]
After examining the machine and witnessing a demonstration, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) professor Markus Zahn admitted that he could not fully explain its operation. Although he refused to call it perpetual motion, he stated that it might be an extremely efficient motor.[9] Regarding the device, Zahn stated that “It’s an unusual phenomena [sic] I wouldn’t have predicted in advance. But I saw it. It’s real. Now I’m just trying to figure it out…To my mind this is unexpected and new, and it’s worth exploring all the possible advantages once you’re convinced it’s a real effect.”[10] However, even if Perepiteia does not produce perpetual motion, Zahn still believes that the device could have considerable practical applications, noting that “There are an infinite number of induction machines in people’s homes and everywhere around the world. If you could make them more efficient, cumulatively, it could make a big difference.”[7]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perepiteia
April 28, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
Getting something for nothing? I doubt it.
April 29, 2012 at 1:27 am
Roger – as far as I can tell, this seems to make an inefficient system less inefficient. I can’t see (yet) an energy gain such that you could loop the output back to the input (so it runs itself) and get spare energy out for free. Such things could happen, though (we don’t know everything), and they should carry on experimenting. If they do get it to produce free energy then the textbooks would have to be rewritten.
Providing they’re not asking me (or governments) for money to develop it, I’m happy to read about it now and again.
April 29, 2012 at 7:00 am |
In Heins’ original 2008 prototype, he claims a 10 to 15% increase in theoretical range for an electric vehicle. With his intermediate and subsequent prototypes, he claims possible unlimited range.
http://humanhavens.com/site/2011/07/major-breakthrough-in-ev-and-hev-generator-design/
April 29, 2012 at 1:25 pm
Looks like his imagination collided with reality.
Electric Car Conversion
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Electric motor requires no maintenance
No muffler to ever replace
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Features of conversion of Ford Escape Hybrid to plug-in
All Electric Range
50 miles
Virtual All Electric Top Speed
80 miles per hour
Battery Storage
15.5 Kilowatt Hours
Battery Type
Thundersky Lithium Iron Phosphate
Conversion System Weight
200 pounds
Conversion System Size
33″ x 30″ x 7.25″
Pack Installation Location
Rear Cargo Deck Area
Rear Cargo Deck Height Reduction
7 inches
Battery Charger Location
Underneath near spare tire
Hybrids Compatibility
Ford Escape, Toyota Highlander, Toyota Camry
http://potentialdifference.com/index.php/buy-all-electric-car
April 29, 2012 at 1:42 pm
I’m curious if his electric car conversion incorporates his claimed invention?
April 30, 2012 at 1:34 am
Iggy – with a range of 50 miles (and 140 for the luxury model, it look like that “unlimited range” prediction is definitely not included. They may have done better choosing a small, light and aerodynamic car to convert, to get the range up a bit – 50 miles is a bit low for most people in Europe, and in the States it is ridiculously small.
April 30, 2012 at 12:38 pm
For an apples vs oranges comparison, the old generation 3 Prius had available an after-market Plug-in conversion available from A123 Battery Co for $10,000 which gave an increase in range of 35 to 40 miles. This isn’t the same as an electric only range because the Prius doesn’t have an electric only mode. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/automobiles/27PLUGIN.html?pagewanted=all
Of course the Prius is now available in Plug-In Hybrid as a factory option.
Personally, I’d rather have a Plug-In Prius Hybrid at 1/2 the electric range because the Prius has an engine to take you home after the batteries run down.
The GM Volt might turn out to be a decent option but it’s too expensive for my pocketbook right now.
April 30, 2012 at 1:20 pm
The Volt is too expensive even if the body politic is paying for $7,000 of the price.
May 28, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
Another break through in thermoelectric’s?
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/dirac-cones-graphene-bismuth-antimony-0424.html