What can we do to help the technology spread?

By Bob Norman:

I thought publicity was key and spreading the word to build a wave of public sentiment would be the thing to do. I asked Rossi in his blog if he was inviting Main Stream Media to his 1 MW demonstration and he said no, publicity was the last thing he wants. I am confused by that and no longer know what can be done or what we should do to help jump start the technology.
What does everyone else think should be the path for helping Rossi Succeed?

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41 Responses to “What can we do to help the technology spread?”

  1. brucefast Says:

    I really think that the first thing that must happen before this technology will catch fire and spread is that the logical naysayers must be fully muted. The e-cat must be proven real beyond reasoned doubt.
    I don’t believe that the 1mw plant will get us there unless it is run on camera for about a week non-stop. It must be run so long that there is no way that its output can be explained by any know process.

    If Rossi gets to selling home heating units, then the proof will come plenty soon enough. Somebody will set up some instruments, display the output on video feed on the net, let the thing run indefinitely, and even Peter Thieberger will conclude that its true.

    Optionally, Rossi could live up to his commitment and hand over a working unit to each of the universities of Bologna and Uppsala for formal testing. I must admit, this approach is likely to produce fruit in about six months. It will then continue to get rejection from many who will find a way to distrust the scientists involved.

    I still say, then, that we can do little until home units are released. Once they are, the internet will find its magical way of spreading the word. We can do little things like being sensible voices on the blogs. There certainly are a good supply of thoughtless naysayers out there.

  2. David Linebarger Says:

    Once we have empirical evidence it will be known overnight.

  3. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    I wish Rossi had kept his mouth shut and blindsided the world with a great product.

  4. Brad Arnold Says:

    I bet Rossi is finding it hard to work and license his product with all the controversy, which he equates with publicity. I heard he was reluctant to even publicize his invention but his partner was in poor health and wanted the public to realize their breakthrough before his death.

    Too late to fly under the radar now – I’ve been worried Rossi isn’t getting enough sleep and so is acting less slightly irrational (but the paparazzi will do that to anyone). To complicate things, his motto appears to be “no compromise,” when the proper strategy ought to be to delegate responsibility and go with the flow.

    Me, I’ve worked tirelessly trying to spread the word and it does almost no good. People are naturally skeptical about new energy technologies that are too good to be true, and furthermore, the normalcy bias makes them prejudice against believing in Black Swan Events. If not for those psychological barriers against belief in the e-cat, Rossi and his invention would be exponentially publicized, meaning the mass media would be all over this story of the century.

    • brucefast Says:

      “I heard he was reluctant to even publicize his invention but his partner was in poor health” I have heard from Rossi and Dr. Levi that the January demo was done for Focardi’s sake (Focardi denies this). However, I have not heard the “poor health” angle. ‘Hope its not true.

      “his motto appears to be “no compromise,” when the proper strategy ought to be to delegate responsibility and go with the flow.” I think you are right. However, the great minds have always been eccentric, and often loners. I expect that things will work out despite Rossi’s idiosyncrasies.

      While I agree that people are really good at rejecting “black swan events”, the truth is that this ability has served them well. There’s got to be 10,000 false declarations of a black swan event for every real one. (I know, why then would I buy into this one? Read my “hoax” page to get my perspective.)

      “If not for those psychological barriers against belief in the e-cat, Rossi and his invention would be exponentially publicized, meaning the mass media would be all over this story of the century.” I think that the one major piece missing is independent testing. A product that people could buy today would probably be just as good. However, until this technology is demonstrated to operate without the wizard standing right there, the rightly skeptical society and news media will remain skeptical.

      Very shortly after the wizard steps away, whether by shipping a product to an end user, or by submitting one to a university for formal testing, the media will go crazy!

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        Brucefast,

        I think that independent testing has been done, in the sense that public demonstrations have been carried out that ought to convince any but the most critical observers. As far as Rossi letting his invention out of his sight and consigning it to an “independent” group to test, there are very good proprietary reasons why he hasn’t done this.

        In my opinion, people fail to conflate independent with free from the relevant influence, guidance, or control of Rossi. Those public tests prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the E-Cat is getting substantial energy return, because Rossi did not exert any conceivable relevant control.

        The disconnect is that people (especially some very critical people) just can’t wrap their head around the fact that Rossi is legitimate, and the the e-cat works – they find it preposterous on the face of it. Therefore they use magical thinking to discount the demos, and are always looking for the penultimate acid test that doesn’t exist in reality. You can bet any “independent” test will be discounted by them too.

        Have you ever tried to satisfy a complainer? Good luck.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        Brad, there are still those of us who are agnostic but hopeful. Do you remember the scene where Rossi shows the output hose to the camera and says that you can’t see the really hot steam. Was the machine still connected to the power source or recently connected to the power source? That scene did not help my believing any.

      • brucefast Says:

        Brad Arnold,
        I think that the scientific community remains VERY dissatisfied with the testing that has been done. They want control of everything except the minimal “black box”, the e-cat core and possibly the electronic controls. They want to be able to do their own piping. They want to be able to use their own instruments, and hook those instruments up their way. They want to be able to run the e-cat for days on end.

        The resultant data would be conclusive. The resultant data would take away my remaining doubts. The resultant data would convince skeptics like Peter Thieberger. (That said, Craig Binns or Steve Krivit might not be convinced.)

        “As far as Rossi letting his invention out of his sight and consigning it to an “independent” group to test, there are very good proprietary reasons why he hasn’t done this.” On this I would disagree with both you and Rossi. The reasons for not submitting to truly independent testing are not “very good”. It is quite reasonable of Rossi to sign agreements with the testers (the University of Bologna, for instance) requiring that they not explore the contents of the black box. This class of agreement would not be breached by the university for moral and integrity reasons, not just for legal reasons.

        Further, Rossi is beginning to sell 1mw plants. Can he realistically expect that the owners of these plants will have more integrity vis-a-vis reverse engineering the e-cat core than the U. of Bologna would have? Reasons, yes, but the reasons fall well into the zone of paranoia, hardly into the zone of “very good” in my opinion.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Not having a patent is justifiable cause for paranoia. If he is not granted a patent, then the only way he could retain control would be to retain ownership of the devices and sell the heat/energy. Of course CocaCola has thrived by relying on their industrial secret, rather than a patent.

      • brucefast Says:

        Iggy, I am a bit confused.

        Lending the U. of Bologna an e-cat core complete with a contract that they not open it or examine its internals (x-ray etc.) would not jeopardize Rossi’s ownership rights, nor risk his trade secrets.

        However, selling 1mw plants, would. In what way is giving the U. of Bologna access to an e-cat core more risky than selling a 1mw plant?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I agree. Lending the machine to U of B would be less risky. Lending it to a similar institution in an energy poor but highly industrialized county, like Singapore, South Korea, Japan, or even Sweden, would be even better.

        I guess Rossi doesn’t see the need to win the heart of academia….but that might exert some pressure on the patent office.

      • brucefast Says:

        The “its a hoax” theory is surely the primary hold up of the patent office. I would think that the best way to get his patent would be to let a university do a formal study of an e-cat.

  5. Bob Norman Says:

    All good comments. Its looking like more and more are starting to listen. I bet that actual units working will be what spreads the word. My gut tells me at some point it will go viral and we will be in an Energy revolution. It may start out of the United States, because of Regulatory delays. Which every country allows products to ship will be the country responsible for setting things off. Waiting when your excited about something is so hard, it reminds me of being a kid waiting for Christmas.

  6. Anthony Scalzi Says:

    On the topic of the e-cat and mainstream media, Forbes’ website had an article on the e-cat:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/17/hello-cheap-energy-hello-brave-new-world/

    Whether the technology or ready or not, it’s starting to be out there.

  7. Bob Norman Says:

    You can see it taking off, there are more articles occurring every day. If the 28 goes well I think it may really take off. I even saw an add for a Cold Fusion Engineer, that the sure sign people are taking things seriously. Originally I was quite worried about it languishing in the lab, but I’m changing my mind fast. In addition to the 28th test, I would love to see an online long term test than ran for a month and anyone could log in and monitor meter and videos of the test. Not only prove the energy, but prove the sustainability. Skeptics die hard and working systems take away their ammunition.

  8. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    While the Forbes article was a good start,it only attracted 6,000 viewers, vs over 80,000 viewers for “Dropbox: The Inside Story Of Tech’s Hottest Startup”. Shows the priorities of our clueless society.

  9. Roger Bird Says:

    I have been a student of alternative health for 44 years. What works spreads from friend to friend, by word of mouth, from neighbor to neighbor, on the Internet. If I can dismantle my furnace and sell it and power our house entirely with an e-cat and an electric generator, then my friends, family, and neighbors will listen to me. The same will work for businesses, and even from individuals to businesses. If it works, it will be unstoppable.

    • brucefast Says:

      I have not told my brother the oil geologist about the e-cat yet. Why? Because I am not certain. What we need from Rossi is case-closing proof. An e-cat in my home would do it. Formally done scientific tests would do it. A webcam connected to an operating 1mw plant, and reporters and scientists telling me that it is working day after day would do it.

      However, it looks like Rossi is planning to disappear for a while once the 1mw is delivered. The buyer doesn’t want publicity. If the thing never shows up in the marketplace, we’ll never know if its because it didn’t work, or if the customer always wanted to bury it because they would loose too much.

      When the last nag of doubt is gone, then I can seriously participate in word-spreading.

      • Brad Arnold Says:

        My impression was that the “customer” was going to have a live web feed, and will ask high profile experts and journalists to attend. Has anything changed? By the way, I see Bill Gates is on at least one Sunday morning talk show next Sunday – I wonder if he is the “customer.”

      • brucefast Says:

        Brad, recent comments by Rossi indicate that the “customer” is a different “customer” than was lined up when he made his hopeful comments. The current customer seems to not want his name know, and wants as little publicity as possible. This is very disappointing!

  10. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Oops, the Forbes article is now up to over 90,000 views.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/17/hello-cheap-energy-hello-brave-new-world/

  11. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Gibbs is a bit more skeptical on his followup.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2011/10/30/believing-in-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/

    • brucefast Says:

      Looks like Forbes wants to protect their royal fanny. Their royal fanny will be bit by the fact that the e-cat is for real.

      WHERE IS THE AP REPORT! In the internet age, mainstream media needs to become convinced that they no longer have the power of suppression.

      • Roger Bird Says:

        I disagree with your belief that AP wants to protect their financial fanny. They want to protect their reputation because they don’t think that it works, yet. I am also still skeptical about 40%, and I have been following it closely and am used to looking outside of the box and I only have 1 little boy’s confidence in me to risk, not millions of readers.

  12. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    George Miley video……starts at 5:30

    http://www.youtube.com/user/kiholobay#p/u/2/N1m2wQevFAY

    He takes the more scientific approach. Easier to do when you’re on the payroll of a couple of universities and have the use of their equipment and free help from grad students.

  13. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Cold Fusion is far from new. The Patterson Power Cell predated Pons & Fleishman.
    ~~~~~~~~~

    “With improvements made to the cell, it now was reported to be producing a significant amount of excess heat. Mr. Patterson is on record as saying it was producing 200 times over the input and some of those who saw the device demonstrated at the PowerGen Conference in 1995 reported heat output of up to 1000 times input. The Power Cell and James Patterson were featured on ABC’s Nightline and Good Morning America and were subject of a British television documentary (all of which have served as resource material for this article).”

    http://ecatsite.wordpress.com/the-e-cat-and-the-patterson-power-cell/

    ~~~~~~~~~
    The problem was that they were never successful in mass producing the metallic beads.

    • brucefast Says:

      It has been said, “Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door” (a phrase attributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson). But obviously not. I do like Rossi’s approach. Damn science, it has failed! Bring the thing to the market as a product; that is Rossi’s approach. It will work. Science will claim all of the credit when the dust settles — as always.

    • brucefast Says:

      Iggy, the link you provided was a very good read! It is clear, however, that Rossi is lightyears ahead of Patterson’s technology in that he uses an easily manufacturable form of nickel.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      The 1000x gain is most impressive. Having worked in Silicon Valley for years, it sure would be interesting to turn the device guys loose on making these balls. Everything they do is very pragmatic and results driven. Just a thought!

  14. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Sorry, it’s in Italian, but you can’t get more cool mainstream than TedTalk.

  15. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Tuesday, November 22, 2011
    Jed Rothwell
    Here is an intelligence overview of cold fusion, published before Rossi emerged: U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency report on cold fusion: Technology Forecast: Worldwide Research on Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Increasing and Gaining Acceptance DIA-08-0911-003, 13 November 2009 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BarnhartBtechnology.pdf Cold fusion has been replicated roughly 14,000 times in several hundred major laboratories, according to the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences. Those people know a lot more about this subject than, say, the U.S. DoE. They probably know a lot about Rossi, too. Rossi is doing a variation of the Arata experiment. Arata & Zhang are in Osaka, Japan, but the research is being paid for and replicated by the government of China. The staff in the lab are Zhang’s colleagues from China. (They speak Japanese, as do I, so I chatted with them about this.) There is more interest in cold fusion than many people realize. I run a web site with a library of 1,200 cold fusion papers (shortcut LENR.org). People download 6,000 to 8,000 papers per week. They have downloaded just over 2 million since I began. That would not be an impressive number for a website devoted to the Kardashians, but these are boring scientific papers. Only a scientist would want to read them. People come universities and national labs worldwide.

    http://www.afcea.org/signal/articles/templates/intel_blog_template.asp?articleid=2806&zoneid=211

  16. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    From ‘Next Big Future’
    “One interviewee, in a face-to-face conversation told us of a small company he’s involved with that he claims has built a working 1 megawatt fusion reactor the size of a rice cooker (though it’s dubious that approximation includes the requisite shielding, cooling, turbines, etc.) The company is now apparently in the process of building a 10MW version that it plans to trial in 2012.

    For a 40-watt power input, the reactor is said to be able to generate a megawatt. The company is based in Australia.

    The technology’s inventor has apparently tinkered with his design for 40 years, and self-funded the company’s early stages, reinvesting income from earlier lucrative inventions. Now, strategic investors are said to include family money, such as a Shanghai real estate baron and decedents of American industrialist John Pitcairn, Jr.

    Culture of secrecy: The company’s secrecy about its actual progress makes Apple look sophomoric. In development since the 90s, it has sworn employees and investors not to let on how successful its research has been. It’s said to have retained the former head of Israel’s counter terrorism unit as its chief of security.

    No to takeover offers: The company is said to have already fielded a buyout attempt by General Electric (NYSE:GE). The founder apparently didn’t want the invention owned by just one corporation, characterizing it an invention for mankind, apparently.

    Requisite military involvement: The company is said to be secretly working with the Australian Air Force and Navy, and the U.S. Department of Defense, and aims to trial a 10MW version of its reactor in 2012 with an Australian utility.”

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/12/new-extraordinary-claims-of-nuclear.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2Fadvancednano+%28nextbigfuture%29

    • brucefast Says:

      I looked at the “rice cooker”, and concluded that this is likely a post from a mocker. Some guy spins a tale, gets lots of people to say “wow”, and declares that this proves that these stupid people will buy into anything — evidence or not.

      When he shows his rice cooker off to people with real qualification (Ph.D., P. Eng. something) and has them independently write about it, then I will give him some credence.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        Also, it would depend on the price of rice and how often
        one needed to add it. Could soy sauce be the catalyst?

    • Roger Bird Says:

      Where are the skeptics when we need them? Rumors about what one guy said about a secret about a process that hasn’t even been proven yet. (I know, that wasn’t even a complete sentence.) I will shelve this along with sightings of Bigfoot. I am not saying the Bigfoot doesn’t exist. I am just saying that it is an open question. (:->)

  17. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    When BigOil joins the parade, LENR is down to the short strokes.

    “Shell’s Interest Indicates Major Shift for LENR
    Posted on December 16, 2011 by Steven B. Krivit

    Shell’s Interest Indicates Major Shift for LENR

    Royal Dutch Shell, plc, one of the largest energy companies in the world, is interested in exploring low-energy nuclear reaction research as a possible game-changer in the energy business.

    Two Shell scientists, Anitha Sarkar and Gilles Buchs, with the backing of the Shell GameChanger program, are looking for opportunities to work actively with LENR experts, according to a brief introduction the researchers prepared.” http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/12/16/shells-interest-indicates-major-shift-for-lenr/

  18. Anony Mole Says:

    Posted under entertaining names and phrases:

    • LENgine (low energy nuclear engine)

    • Nickel-load-eons

    • The Future is NiH (pronounced ny)

    • DOT – department of transmutation

  19. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Does anyone bother to read ecatnews? It seems to have been abandoned to the skeptics. They should rename it skepcatnews.

    • brucefast Says:

      ecatnews.com hasn’t posted anything new since mid April. Its obvious that administration there has gone dormant. I expect that they’ll wake up as soon as something beyond heresay comes up — like proof, or a released product. I plan to maintain an interesting site during this dry spell.

    • Roger Bird Says:

      I thought that they were just taking a breather.

  20. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Well, what do you think? Does this youtube (via Ramsy at ecw) demonstrate cold fusion?

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