What of the grid

When Dr. Rossi’s e-cat technology is released, the power grid will go through a lot of twists and changes, but it may not die.

I am sure that very early in the cycle, projects with heavy development bills will be abandoned, such as hydroelectric dams.  The things cost millions of dollars, and are expected to pay for themselves over a 20 to 50  year life cycle.  If energy is becoming all but free, all of that construction will never pay off.

If hydroelectric dam development is suddenly halted, then the community that the dam was intended to serve will be served by Rossi generators very early.  Other electric generation plants, whether they be oil, gas, coal or nuclear fired, all have high development costs.  All of these projects that are not at least nearly completed will be abandoned, and Rossis will replace them.

Next will come replacing existing plants with Rossi plants.  This will probably be done on a cost-benefit basis.  The ones that use the most expensive fuels will be removed first.  Plants that are getting old will be removed early.  As hydroelectric is one of the least expensive sources of power, it will be the last to go.  Coal plants, though they are cheap, may get pressured to go out early because they have higher carbon footprint.

At some point in time, homes, apartment buildings and corporations will be popping off the grid fast enough that excess capacity will become the issue of the electric company.  Again, they will be decommissioning power generation, most expensive, or possibly most polluting, first.  However, the electric companies will not be buying a lot of Rossis.

At some point, electric companies will have to consider whether to continue in business as Rossi-power providers, or to simply go out of business.  I do not know the cost of grid maintenance.  Certainly grid maintenance is much less expensive than grid development.  If electric companies could replace expensive power systems with Rossi power, they would only need to charge people the cost of power transmission plus reasonable profit.  With this kind of low cost grid power, it may not make sense for residences, even small corporations, to buy and maintain their own generation systems when they can buy power for cheap.

However, When a Rossi generator will run for 6 months on a stack of nickels, it is doubtful that building new grid will ever make sense.  The third world, in particular, will have a strong move to power generated on site, eliminating the cost of grid development.

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44 Responses to “What of the grid”

  1. Jonathan Says:

    From what I understand, it takes about an hour for the Rossi reaction to start, and then about 30 minutes or so to heat up the boilers so the turbines can start spinning. That means Rossi will replace other nuclear reactors and coal as base load capacity, but you will still need hydro and possibly gas for peak generation where you can change output levels at the flick of a switch.

    Also, bear in mind that it uses enriched nickel. Normal nickel contains 7 different isotopes of which only 2 are suitable for nuclear fusion. They have to be separated out, so while it will be cheaper than other fuels, it won’t be “virtually free”.

    • brucefast Says:

      When power is so cheap, there it will be totally fair to leave the Rossi and the boiler heated up waiting to be used. My understanding is that the Rossi can be kept at temperature, and controlled by controlling the pressure of the hydrogen gas. I expect that this same technique will allow us to get up and go in our Rossi cars — despite the flaming from the readership of the “waste” of keeping the Rossi and steam hot while its not being used.

      What is going on in the Rossi as far as nickel isotopes is concerned seems unclear. Whatever the case, the isotopes don’t need to be pure as the wrong isotopes of nickel don’t slow down the reaction. In addition, the cost of any process is heavily dependent on how much it is used. If low grade (not very pure) enrichment is required, it will soon become extremely inexpensive to do.

  2. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Among the early casualties might be wind, solar, and other already uneconomic systems. An early adapter may be utilities using medium sized E-Cats to generate power in local substations. There are quite a few municipalities that own the local grid but buy power from the big grid.

    One of the biggest beneficiaries might be ocean going freighter companies, many of which are based in Greece.

  3. BB Says:

    It all depends on how easy, cheap and small it can be made. If it can be made really cool, in a form-factor comparable to a battery but with 120V AC power for many years,… then new equipment will be pre-charged for a lifetime. Like a washing-machine without a power cord?

    But I’m not convinced that it is all that easy…

  4. claudio bernard Says:

    The grids (T&D trasmition and distribution) nowdays are in continuos evolution PV,minihydro,windpower need interconnections every day with the traditional power generation . A huge change will happen when new power storage devices will be invented. Fossil fuel,dams, biomass,are all power storage .
    We can find many way to make energy but the real challenge is to find a way to compress in small unit as much as possible energy .
    E-Cat is a very impressive way to solve our energy thirsty , a good power-buffer needed for a success on small user like a normal house .

  5. Barnabas Brackwasser Says:

    Are you aware that the e-Cat has never produced steam in order
    to actually generate electricity and that it is not intended anyways?
    Mr. Rossi pointed out in his blog that the steam quality is not
    sufficient for running a steam turbine. From this fact told by him,
    I conclude that the steam is not saturated, which has already
    been questioned by Mr. Krivit before.
    Your post is even far beyond the facts that are actually known
    from Mr. Rossi. I’m starting to capitulate in face of all those wishful
    thinking bloggers like you, rossifocardifusion.com, ecatnews.com,
    e-catworld.com and Cold Fusion Times. They all recycle replies
    given by Mr. Rossi in his blog thus giving them credibility by making
    news out of them. Most of these articles don’t even deliver proper
    citation of the source.

    • brucefast Says:

      “From this fact told by him,
      I conclude that the steam is not saturated, which has already
      been questioned by Mr. Krivit before.”

      I don’t think that this is the issue, as Dr. Rossi has made it very clear that the output of the e-cat is “dry steam”. However, steam engines normally operate at about 500 degrees Celsius, under very high pressure. I believe that the e-cat has an issue in that it operates more like at about 200 degrees Celsius. As such, it can’t get to the common operating temperatures of traditional steam.

      That said, this is just a minor hurdle. It is quite possible to run steam engines with much less pressure. You don’t get the same power to weight ratio, but when you are competing with free energy, that’s rather minor. Further, Stirling cycle engines work with as little heat as the heat of one’s hand. As such, the e-cat puts out plenty of heat for it to be harnessed and turned into electricity.

  6. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Cheap heat is welcome, whether it’s sufficient to run a turbine or not. If insufficient, it can be topped off with natural gas. It’s a worthy subject to speculate about. Hopefully we’ll know the truth in a few months. If the E-Cat fizzles, I’ll be disappointed but life will go on.

  7. Bob Norman Says:

    I think the Ecat will quickly kill wind and solar. Wind is an Eye sore, unreliable, kills birds and is noisy. Solar only works during the day, is expensive and requires battery holding capability. Solar wears out before its paid for. The Ecat will totally kill these technologies once it is proven.
    The long term success of the Ecat is in Electric conversion. There are many ways and its not obvious what the winner is. Long term I think Thermoelectric will win.

  8. brucefast Says:

    The real cost of an e-cat is minimal — nickel, hydrogen, shielding (lead). As such, when mass production brings the cost down, I expect that e-cats will be able to produce electricity well in to the 1/10 cent per kw/h range. In this range, grid maintenance is likely to not be competitive. I am sure this will take a couple of decades. However, I really expect that in 50 years all hydro-electric dams will be dismantled.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      I think your right. The biggest question I have in this area is how government will react. This is the ultimate green energy and will do away with gas, coal and oil. It will be the source for electricity at the local level as well as cars and trucks. With all these good things happening the money flow to government will be halted. The power taxes will go away if every home and business have their own energy sources. The gas tax will go away when Nickel replaces gas. A $2 nickel fuel load renewed every 6 months to a year will not come close to supplying the tax revenue. As soon as government realizes this they will panic. The cost of all goods should go down which is a deflation event.
      It will get real interesting very quickly.

    • Anthony Scalzi Says:

      Dams have an independent value as flood control devices. I would not want to see them dismantled.

  9. M S Meyers Says:

    The more the E-Cat is used for electricity locally, the need for the grid is obviously reduced. Especially, if thermoelectric conversion is developed there is no obvious need for AC. Next generation homes and appliances, etc. could be converted to DC usage which could be more efficient (and less noisy) over these short distances. There is nothing “magic” about AC except more efficient transmission over long distances plus some advantage in efficient voltage conversion. Just a thought to see what others think.

    • brucefast Says:

      I think you didn’t mention the biggest advantage that AC has — it is well established. I have found this to be a powerful force. After all, it will be difficult to convert existing homes to DC power. Homes in transition will have to have both AC and DC. Manufacturers will have to make AC and DC versions of everything for a while. While DC does hold some advantages when transportation is removed, I don’t expect that it will take over. But hey, I may be wrong.

  10. Web4YOU Says:

    Mr. Rossi is not the only one who has a patent one LENR powered devices.

    There is a German patented invention who use the LENR Energy of NiH not only make hot water or steam, they made directly mechanical energie.
    The invention is: put the Ni-H reactor directly into a stirling engine where the working gas is the same as the reaction gas: hydrogen.

    The best way to power our cars in the future.

    The cars of the future will be our electricity suppliers for homes and industry, because 90% of there time they don´t drive they park somewhere and deliver electricity to a lokal grid.

    • brucefast Says:

      (Note, I deleted your other identical post).
      There will be many patents flying around that marry the e-cat with all sorts of other technology. This is hardly revolutionary in the same camp as the e-cat itself.

      The stirling engine has a number of deficits that will not be addressed by putting the e-cat inside its hot-side. Stirlings have a poorer power to weight ratio than steam. But mostly, stirling is not great at changing its output power like steam is. On the other hand, steam can jump from outputting very low power to outputting very high power in a moment. Also, steam can output full power at very low rpms and high rpms making transmissions unneccessary.

      I therefore contend that the stirling with the e-cat inside will not be what replaces the car motor, rather steam will. I don’t think that it makes sense to have steam generate electricity that powers the wheels, rather the steam power will be directly connected to the wheels. As such, the e-cat car will not be useful at providing home power. (After all where will the home get power from when the car is in the shop.)

  11. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Replacing the water jacket with a layer of aluminum doped zinc oxide might result in thermoelectric power.

    http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=22907.php

  12. Bob Norman Says:

    One possibility that could emerge, is for people to organize in groups and pool their money and buy MWatt generators. Small towns would be an ideal starting point. Buy and run their own generators to service the town. The town would pay for it by collecting fees that are the same as electricity today. After the initial cost is payed off the revenue could help the city in its money needs. Maybe property taxes could be reduced. Any excess power could still be sent to the grid to further make money. The grid would be an exchange between power facilities to even out a temporary peak load, much like today.

    • brucefast Says:

      And a lot of jurisdictions have instituted power buying agreements for homeowners who are generating power using green technologies. These jurisdictions already have the legal and technical specification structure in place to allow this to happen.

  13. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    My little town, pop 2,500, buys power from the grid. The town owns the poles and wires. When I was a child, 60 yr ago, the city generated it’s own power with diesel engines.

    Tallahassee, 50 miles to the east, generates its power with gas
    steam-turbines. It has a few gas-turbines for peak demand.

    My nephew-in-law is a CPA for TVA. I’ve sent him info on E-Cat but he hasn’t commented.

    • Bob Norman Says:

      Iggy, I see a possible nice business possibility out of this. Small towns could buy a few mega watts with a bond issue and set up units to serve their town. They bill the people at normal rate and use it to pay off the bonds. The excess energy could be sold to the grid making more profit. after the bonds were paid the prices could be reduced, yet still be a revenue generator for the city.
      What would be interesting is what would happen when the power company has to start writing checks instead of receiving. I bet the, “must pay, ” requirements would go away quick.
      The Smart Grid people could get shot out of the saddle before they get going.
      Whats nice about the Grid being no longer needed is the vulnerability to terrorist attacks will all but go away.
      All of this will work itself out and I expect the power companies will move fast to reinvent themselves and develop a new business model.

      • Rip Debunkelar Says:

        Good point Bob. Distributed energy production can follow any number of models. Micro-grids like Iggy’s town are a natural development for a 2-3 MW rossi installation. There will also be a huge manufacturing opportunity for the world’s next major appliance. I would be astonished if GE, Honda, Sub Zero and competitors did not license the technology for home units combining heat, hot water, electric and adsorption cooling.

        Right again about Smart Grid demise. There is little smart about them other than new fee/data collection strategies. Gonna be fun!

  14. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Interesting simple homemade gadget.

    “My video was shot at: 53.322062,6.206194 (insert in Google Maps), september 1st, 2012. This is the raw video footage (only inserted some titles).I drove 38 miles to this remote location, it’s a nice place to sit, eat and relax and it’s not near any buildings. It’s easy to build yourself, although it took me 3 tries to get this one working. Please give me feedback if you improve it, so I can create a better version. It’s base is a strong neodymium magnet and a self wound coil. The magnet was salvaged from an old harddisk – these are véry strong and easy to find! I tried round earth magnets (18mm Ø and 2mm thick) from eBay but they don’t seem to work. Maybe the shape to create the magnetic field isn’t right? I think it’s not a perpetuum mobile, the power has to come from an external source.
    Maybe zero point? Voltage is stable, even under load, that’s promising!”

  15. brucefast Says:

    Iggy, this has me seriously weirded out! I don’t see any profiteering from this guy. I don’t see any “look at me”. He doesn’t even say who he is. If you look at other videos he’s posted, they are all over the “home experiment” map.

    What he is doing should be painfully easy to replicate. As soon as I have time (not before the new year) I think I have to try replicating it.

    Where is the power coming from? That is the question.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      I wonder if a more powerful magnet produce more electricity? You could also attach more magnets. Supermagnetman sells a 7″ magnet that has an 82 lb pull. That’s almost too much to handle.

      http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=378

    • brucefast Says:

      I mostly wonder how long it generates power for. Will the motor run forever? Is it literally eating up the magnetism like you drain a battery?

      Once the phenomenon is known a gazillion engineers will figure out optimal in no time.

      Oh, what will this do to rare earth mining? Are there enough rare earth materials to power the world with this thing?

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        “Is it literally eating up the magnetism like you drain a battery?”

        Well, the guy in the video salvaged his magnet from a junk harddrive, and it apparently still has ample magnetic force.

      • brucefast Says:

        The magnets he salvaged weren’t giving him free power for a coon’s age. What happens if he hooks up his motor or light bulb and lets it sit for a month? Does this power phenomenon cause the magnetism to wear out unlike a magnet does when its running a motor? Is this an LENR reaction? Could it be that six months of running and the rare earths in the magnet turn into something else?

        If a magnet has a lifespan the equations are very different than if the device will deliver power forever.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        T’would be interesting to use device to power an led or a capacitor. Wonder why he drove to a remote location?

      • brucefast Says:

        I think he drove to a remote location to eliminate the theory that he was sucking power from the grid, from the 60 hz hum that is ubiquitous in an urban environment.

      • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

        I believe it may be a “Toroidal Transwomptifier”.

  16. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    Here, with a 2nd magnet added, the transwomptifier lights a light-bulb.

    • brucefast Says:

      There are two things that deeply concern me about this guy. First is the inconceivably simple device that surely breaches everything we know about energy. Second is the fact that a number of commenters have apparently tried to replicate his device and failed.

      I have asked a friend to try replicating it, just because it is so easy. I may try myself. I figure 1/2 hour should replicate it as I have the wire, a spare hard drive, a meter and a hot glue gun. However the guy’s work hardly merits more attention until it gets replication.

  17. siteadmin Says:

    Many people get a kick from putting up youtube hoaxes just because they can :-)

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Anytime a youtube shows something that looks impossible, the obvious answer is “it’s a hoax”. The other possible answer is “it’s real”. So I expect Bruce and maybe Simon will try it.

      The 2nd video looks more difficult to fake, no obvious place to hide a battery. Could possibly have used a Tesla coil.

      Most of the poster’s other videos illustrated simple legitimate scientific phenomena.

    • brucefast Says:

      I’ve pondered this video quite a bit. Where has he hidden the power? Ah but that’s the magician’s secret, isn’t it. Has he jerry-rigged his meter? What about the light and the spinning motor? There’s got to be power somewhere.

      Next question, why? Possibly because the guy finally got a video that has been viewed over 100,000 times. Maybe he likes being noticed for advertising.

      More likely it is to laugh at those who see such a simple thing and presume its true. What a childish motivation — but potentially valid none the less.

      Its way too simple. Its way too powerful. Some have tried to replicate it and failed. I’m a 99% skeptic at this point.

    • Simon Derricutt Says:

      Sorry, I’ve been head-down for a while. One of the YouTube comments noted that the “motor” may be the outer case of a motor with a tiny cellphone vibrator motor inside it, with a couple of Lithium button cells in there too. The motor has one pin to the outer shell, and the other to the cells and then to the outer shell. Similar fix in the meter, and the coil acts as a dead short. If the device worked for real, it would produce AC and not drive a DC motor. For the lamp video, note that it’s on a table and the lamp accepts AC (it’s not “measured”) so a driver coil under the table will (rather inefficiently) light the lamp – simple air-cored transformer.

      If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

      Give the guy some kudos for producing a good video that befuddled a lot of people. I hope he doesn’t go work for someone like Keshe, since adding this level of sophistication would gain Keshe even more disciples. As it is it looks like he’s just doing this for fun.

      It’s useful, too, as a warning that even simple measurements can be faked, and how easy it is to believe what you see. Best to measure these things yourself rather than rely on a video or even a patent. In this case, however, it’s not worth the time to make one and test it.

  18. Iggy Dalrymple Says:

    MONODYMO

    http://www.youtube.com/user/stancurtin/videos

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Correct URL:

      • Simon Derricutt Says:

        Iggy – try looking for single-pole magnets on ebay – you can’t get them since they don’t actually exist except in some theories. If one did exist, then it wouldn’t drive the coil around that way – current would need to be running through the coil to produce any reaction. As such, the nails feed power in to the coil (AC drive), and the magnet at the bottom is a normal two-pole magnet. He’s built a synchronous AC motor.

        It’s another hoax, but if a monopole magnet did exist then it’s true that, together with a normal ring magnet, you could get free energy since the monopole would follow the lines of force.

    • Iggy Dalrymple Says:

      Trouble with this thing is: supposedly there is no such thing as a monopole magnet.

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